I feel like we lose a ton of value flatting here when we're this deep. I think I would make it like 375, planning to bet 550 on the flop and shove turn.

There may also be some merit in just bombing it here to go for max value against KK. We could even consider jamming if we think there's a chance villain could level himself into putting us on AK, but against most halfway decent players we run a big risk of letting them off the hook with a range we should have been able to get value from.

So IMO reasonable 5bet > jam > flat.

Seems to me that you targeted the part of his range that is [KK+], instead of targeting the part of his range that is [TT+,AKo,AQs+].

If he has [KK+], the money is going in OTF (or OTT) regardless as to what happens.

However, if you give him a chance, he may put some money in with [TT-QQ,AK,AQs] OTF when he is still way behind.

Furthermore, you have to give this guy some credit. If, as you say, he's built his stack by exploiting the bad players. Then he 4b/f against you with whatever his range was.

ETA: or are you telling me you think he folded KK?

Need to raise here OOP .. but maybe not that much. It's not that you are risking anything here with AA, but you do want to keep V range a little bit wider than AA/KK/QQ.

He did create set mining odds with the raise, but that can be eliminated very quickly here if Hero raises. You have AA, set the pot up on your terms, not V's. GL

Lappy, my problem with your logic is that flatting here doesn't make our hand look that much weaker. What called that 4 bet?

Your goal is to snap some bluff off on the flop...I think his bluffing range is quite low on the flop because he's going to think we have aces or kings once we call pre.

There's also the fact that his range is a ton of AA-QQ and I want those to pay more to see the flop. A good V isn't betting those hands on the flop against us as he is WA/WB most of the time.

We are indeed widening our range if we just flat pre here compared to putting in another raise. IMO we have AA/KK in our range if we flat, but so is JJ/QQ/AK and other combos as well.

That being said i dont like flatting here at all, and i actually think its pretty to bad to do so being OOP and over 300 BB deep. Villain is just getting too good of a package from us if we flat here containing odds to outdraw us, proper setmining odds with his pairs, position and not low enough SPR for me to think flatting is the most +EV play here.

Taking down the pot preflop uncontested is not the end of the world the way i see it either. Sure we hope for more action with AA, but we have to give ourself the chance to catch that big score- and we do that by coming over the top pre. I have seen very good players having extremely hard time to get away from big hands in these raising wars preflop, for a bunch of different reasons. They can be tired,they can be hungry and frustrated, they can judge our handstrength wrong, level themself or just flat out make a big mistake.

I know you agree with me about raising Rumour, i am just elaborating a little bit in my answer to you here.

Ok, but if our range is wider with the hands you suggest, he really should still only be betting with the part of his range that can potentially call pre.

I was just making the statement that our flattingrange here is wider than our 5 bettingrange- nothing more than that. You disagree?

IMO you can make alot of arguments against flatting, but saying we are not widening our range by just calling pre is not one of them.

I think it doesn't widen it enough is all I'm saying, we 3 bet/called from the SB. Our range is still super tight.

Agree (and said so earlier) which is why this spot is a mandatory 5 bet.

As an example we might very well 3 bet with 1010 or JJ and then call villains 4 bet this deep for pure setmining value, but we are certainly not showing up with 1010/JJ if we 5 bet pre here.

grunch. 5bet to $350. this sets up a tiny spr and gives him illusion of set mining odds. 5betting bigger probably folds out everything but KK.
flatting is terriblr. go for max value against the top of his range. if hes bluffing or has a weak hand like TT he probably wont put in alot post unless he outdraws you

also if you flat, an A or K will flop 33% of thr time when he has QQ etc. just too many bad flops for him and AK will miss flop ~75% of the time

OP, my friend was the BB in this hand, and he insta-mucked KK here.

I probably just default to putting more money in the pot because I have AA and villain's range is strong.

I don't think flatting narrows our range as much as you'd think. We'd be getting 3.5 to 1 with 1650 behind effective, I would think we should be continuing with a lot of our 3b range to this 4b sizing and we obviously want strong hands in that continuing range as well.