Preflop MD 2/5 See what is the standard - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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Preflop MD 2/5 See what is the standard

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08-26-2014 , 07:17 PM

pgcounty

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,183

BB is fairly tight.
V1 is UTG+2 tight but compentent. $380 stack
V2 is CO pretty tight preflop. He's really fit or fold on the flop so it's hard to make lots of money of him. $600 behind

V1 Opens to $35 (normal open is $20)
V2 calls.
We look down in the SB with 8c9c

We, with $400?

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08-26-2014 , 07:24 PM

cook-

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 416

Larger than usual open in that game usually means JJ/QQ from what I've seen. Not only that, you'll be OOP against not one, but two tight ranges pre. As much I hate throwing away suited connectors, this is a fold with all things considered (including how shallow stacks are).

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08-26-2014 , 08:20 PM

BackDoorFlush

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 2,171

Trivial fold.

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08-26-2014 , 09:02 PM

The Muffin Man

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2,023

99 would make it a more interesting spot.

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07-03-2015 , 09:38 AM

onejiggaman

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 185

Agree it's an ugh-fold. These obvious bet-sizing tells at MD Live from abc players are quite common and exactly what they look like. With another caller I'm in but I otherwise drop out of these close spots OOP, especially since you should assume no room for fold equity on a check-shove flop.

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07-03-2015 , 09:46 AM

WittyName26

adept

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 940

Easy fold

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07-03-2015 , 11:02 AM

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,516

Quote:

Originally Posted by cook-

This, 100%

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07-03-2015 , 11:48 AM

neuroman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 9,192

Agree with fold. But anyone calling with KQs in this spot?

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07-03-2015 , 12:07 PM

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,516

Yeah, I prob call KQs, and def do if we were in position. That hand plays well multi-way, and as this is TT/JJ so often, one pair can be good against the original opener if we check, he c-bets, and the others fold. Wouldn't get excited about one pair with KQs though, without that specific scenario.

2-pair would have a lot of value with a lot of TPTK in the other Vs ranges, and similarly broadway would often be against 2-pair and easy to get stacks in. It would be speculative, and I'd usually c/f, but as long as we don't RIO ourselves, I think it's a fine call.

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07-03-2015 , 12:24 PM

#10

Willyoman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 10,468

Fold.

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07-03-2015 , 12:48 PM

#11

venice10

Referee

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 25,855

Agree with folding 98 and calling with KQ under these circumstance. If the hand doesn't end on the flop with you holding TP, you're probably in trouble with two tight villains.

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07-03-2015 , 01:07 PM

#12

au4all

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,872

Quote:

Originally Posted by neuroman

Agree with fold. But anyone calling with KQs in this spot?

Against a tight range like KK+/AK, 98s is far better than KQs.

98s has 34% (100 * (31.692/23.614 - 1) more equity than KQs.

Unless KQs is ahead of the opener's range, i.e. it's strong enough to 3-bet, it's a very easy fold.

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07-03-2015 , 01:23 PM

#13

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,516

Umm, do you even sizing tells? V rarely has KK+/AK here. This is like 50% JJ, 30% TT, 10% QQ, and 10% other, ime.

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07-03-2015 , 01:47 PM

#14

Horseworker

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 70

Let's go further. What if hero has AKo/AKs in this situation? What's the best move? $105 sounds good?

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07-03-2015 , 09:18 PM

#15

timmay28

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,845

I think 89s & kqs are both trivial folds and not sure i call w/aqs even

Not deep enough for expensive speculation, OOP, and utg+2 surely has a big hand; readless it could easily be QQ+ a good enough fraction of the time that I'm not speculating w/hands that mostly stand to lose big win small

Generally speaking, when somebody telegraphs their handstrength like this, FFS exploit it by folding and not giving action!

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