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Preflop facing 4b Preflop facing 4b

09-04-2015 , 02:18 AM
V1- 2p2 lurker probably leans towards tag but can open his game up. Early position range is probably ATs+,AJo+, SCs, 88+, and Broadway's other than KT/KJo. Respects hero and talks hands with him frequently. Views him as a good lag who occasionally spews/gets out of line post flop. Knows hero is perfectly willing to 3b light and with a linear range, but will respect 5b range. (stack 400-425ish)

V2- Tight passive only really relevant for live tell (stack 80-90)

V3- new drunk player who is passive station to the extreme and very likely to not fold ATC (stack 100ish)

Hero- 22 year old kid talking a lot, most of the table thinks he is a spewtard whale with perpetual run good but there are exceptions who respect him. Opening the most out of anyone especially lp.. 3bs IP a lot in regards to the player pool. Plays standard poker like 90% of the time but always has aggro bluffy image to fish

Pre-Flop 1/2

V1 opens to 12 utg
V2 calls 12
V3 calls 12
Hero 3b CO with XX to 45
V1 tank 4b to 130
V2 thinks for 5 seconds and folds (think it's likely ATs/AJ/AQ/medium pair when he pauses to think)
V3 folds
Hero???

Dynamics: Hero is certainly going to 3b iso here a lot against V3 and V1 realizes this. Our range looks something like AJ+,99+, KJ+. He is always 4b QQ+/AK here and given dynamics potentially AQo (think he flats suited AQ). He is snap folding AQ to a 5b and snap calling KK and AA. I suspect QQ/AK are going to fold some and call some times. AK probably more likely to call than QQ as it does much better vs our perceived range. There is no history of hero 5b so our V 5b will look like KK,AA for sure with possible combos of QQ and AK mixed in. If read on V2 is accurate we can discount some AA combos. V1 tank 4b could be a tell but suspect not.

1. What range are we 5b here?
2. What sizing are we using and do different hands want different sizings?
3. What range are we flatting here?

Last edited by Cbrewer4; 09-04-2015 at 02:25 AM.
Preflop facing 4b Quote
09-04-2015 , 08:08 AM
I don't know how people answer posts like this. I never think in terms of ranges of hands that I might have. I only consider which line is best for the actual hand that I have.
Preflop facing 4b Quote
09-04-2015 , 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverLosesAtPoker
I don't know how people answer posts like this. I never think in terms of ranges of hands that I might have. I only consider which line is best for the actual hand that I have.
I agree. I can't even begin to answer this because I don't know Hero's stack size to start.

Assuming Hero has V1 covered, it is 1/2 and nobody is particularly good (3betting light in position with a linear range is a leak), a 4 bet is going to be KK+, with maybe QQ and AK and a smattering of trash. Against even that wide a range, you're only 5 betting for value with AA. Sizing really doesn't matter because the money is going in on the flop.

As for flatting, even on J high flop we're behind his range with anything other than AA. We go all in because we aren't that much behind. We're only going to be happy with set on the flop. Unless we pair an ace, we don't like aces on the flop.
Preflop facing 4b Quote
09-04-2015 , 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverLosesAtPoker
I don't know how people answer posts like this. I never think in terms of ranges of hands that I might have. I only consider which line is best for the actual hand that I have.
It's impossible to decide what line is best for the hand you have without thinking about the other hands you might have. Like, if a flush card comes on the river and you've played the hand similar to how you would with a flush draw, you should often bet even if you don't have a flush! Probably a leak to not have considered this.

EDIT: To respond to the actual question, the best line seems to be to shove KK+, AK and fold everything else. I don't see any point to flatting ever and using multiple sizings of 5bet seems awful against someone who's paying attention.

Last edited by bobman0330; 09-04-2015 at 10:23 AM.
Preflop facing 4b Quote
09-04-2015 , 10:27 AM
Clearly you put a lot more thought into it than I do. Rarely do I have a decision that takes longer than 1 second to make. I guess the OP would be better served if you handled this one.
Preflop facing 4b Quote
09-04-2015 , 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
I agree. I can't even begin to answer this because I don't know Hero's stack size to start.

Assuming Hero has V1 covered, it is 1/2 and nobody is particularly good (3betting light in position with a linear range is a leak), a 4 bet is going to be KK+, with maybe QQ and AK and a smattering of trash. Against even that wide a range, you're only 5 betting for value with AA. Sizing really doesn't matter because the money is going in on the flop.

As for flatting, even on J high flop we're behind his range with anything other than AA. We go all in because we aren't that much behind. We're only going to be happy with set on the flop. Unless we pair an ace, we don't like aces on the flop.
+1

just play what is given to you (and i don't mean your cards). if you're getting 4 bet at a 1/2 table, chances are it's not a light 4bet. pushing the issue (ie 5betting) with poor holdings (QQ-, maybe even KK) is just going to show a net loss in the long run unless you know V is capable of light 3betting.
Preflop facing 4b Quote
09-04-2015 , 12:19 PM
5bet KK+ or flat if you think he folds worse alot. fold qq ak jj
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