$2/$5 NL


BB ($115)..total degen whale
UTG ($350)....another fish who calls WAY too much but has some basic knowledge.
Hero ($450)...just sat 10 mins ago but most of these guys know me. What they think of me is anyone's guess.
LP (covers) One of the better older players Ive played with, but too loose for sure.

Button straddles. SB folds. BB min raises to $20. UTG calls. Hero in MP with JcJs makes it $100. LP cold calls $100. BB and UTG both call also

Flop ($420) 9h 6h 2s. Checked to me.......Clearly I dont have many options. Does anyone think JJ is good here?

No clue, but it's going in.

If we go off women stereo types, no. But if we go off your read, is she classic woman stereo type? Looks not.

Time to find out. Shove.

Coin flip if your good or not but you have $350 left and there is more then that in the pot. Shove. Hope LP has AK and isn't getting tricky with AA/KK.

of course it looks good be glad and move in.
you bloated the pot with a raise that was going to suck some in so you got that and the flop you wanted.

Jam. SPR is a bit over 1. We can get called by worse.

so the pot is 420 and you have 350 left with jacks on a rather dry 9 high board and you don't know what to do?

jam....

I know exactly what the default play is, but there are very few hands that LP would flat my $100 3 bet with. We play together a lot and hes knows I have a big hand. I honestly dont think check/folding is terrible here.

It's bad if at any point they flat AKs & AKo/TT. Like really bad.

If they flat only AKs/TT+. It's probably ok to c/f. Not loving that move though. But probably the correct move.

Of course, but I think that's pretty unlikely. Would you flat $100 3 bet with AK? This guy isnt a fish.

Would I? No. Would somebody else? I think there is a chance.

Big enough chance we probably have to stack off.


If you want to change my opinion on V, we need probably a little more information than
"One of the better older players Ive played with, but too loose for sure.". In your OP you say he's too loose. Does that mean in raising or calling raises? What does this mean?

When I read that, I think enough AKo to justify a shipperoosky.

If you can narrow his range down to AKo-AKs and JJ+ c/f right?

If you didn't want the high variance play, why did you 3bet an upper med PP from MP?

If you think LP is likely to flat with AA/KK knowing it will be a big pot but isn't calling with AK then OK. You describe villain as too loose but if your sure calling the big raise is never light then folding could be best.

If you have such a strong opinion of the range that LP is playing, why not give it to us in the OP?

OK, so lets give AK a 10% chance. If we give TT a 10% chance we have to give 99 at least 5%. That leaves 70% for QQ+ and 5% for some random spaz hand

So Im behind 80%. If we give AK 15%, Im behind 75%. That doesnt even account for what the other 2 guys have.

I cant call a $20 min raise with JJ after a button straddle and another guy called already unless Im going to just set mine with JJ. I wasnt expecting a cold call of $100 behind me.

How strong a read do I need to give? I dont know about your games but its a rare player that cold calls a $100 3 bet in my game without a premium hand.

Checking here and giving a free card to hands like AQ, AK, KQ, and flush draws is a disaster.

Then you know it is a check/fold. 15% combos of AK is is like 2.4 co9mbos lol.

99-TT is not even 1 combo, it's .9

Add in the 70% 12.6 combos of QQ+.

you don't need to do much math to see that it's a check/fold if you're so sure.

I actually play against some people just like OP is describing, they don't think they get action from worse by 4-betting so they just flat their big PPs and sends straight alarm bells when they cold call my 3-bets. More often than not those tight regs have it. You need to be very positive of that read though, if you start getting one of those monkey regs who flat AQs in this spot and what not. You're going to be missing too much money.

Do you really think JJ is only a setmine hand? It's not deuces.

Yea all in, KQhh/JThh/AQhh ect are possible. Checking is too tight/passive, not worth letting field see a free turn

Why do you continually ask stupid questions? I 3 bet JJ but got into a sticky situation. Then you asked why I 3 bet preflop. I told you because calling in that spot to set mine is stupid. Now you ask if I think JJ is only a set mining hand.

Stop trolling me. Youre almost as bad as RP.

In the end, that's what I did. I thought about it for a decent amount of time and decided that all options sucked so I shoved. LP called. BB called off his last $15. UTG folded QQ face up.

LP had KK.

The more I think about it, the more I still think all options suck, but check/folding is best. At least its a bad option that costs me the $100 I already put in the pot which is better than a probably 80+% chance Im going to lose the other $350.

Maybe you already know this, but in case you don't (or other people don't)

This money isn't yours.
You're not 'costing' your self anything with regard to that money.

You can try and win the entire pot by the best method possible, but the fact that you were the one that invested $100 of that pot does not change what you should do at this point.

Agreed