Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
pocket 10s oop 1/2 NL pocket 10s oop 1/2 NL

07-30-2014 , 04:27 PM
game is 1k max NL and hero has about 600 infront of him...heros image is tag, tighter than most at the table

this is a private game, 3 of the players at the table play 5/5+ regularly and the rest play 2/5 and under here and there. same group every week.

1/2 straddle 5. utg (600 behind) makes it 20. utg (villain 1) is a good NL player that spews here and there. he is backed in the game by one of the whales and he is aggro, young hindu kid. folds to hj who calls, cutoff calls, button calls (these 3 players will call any 2 cards if they have pot odds and pot odds to them is at least 1 caller pre flop). hero looks down at 2 black 10s, and i decide to call bc we are deep (all of us have over 200bb, and oop)...big blind is one of the 3 regs who plays the bigger games (theyre game broke, villain 2)...he is has 800 behind and he 3 bets to 85 total, straddle folds and v1 insta calls.

everyone else folds to me....whats heros play here?

v2 will do this with any 2 cards, hes very aggro but doesnt spew and usually has it. he is a young guy about late 20s and owns a business, i see him at the club every single time i play and i used to play 4x a week.
v1 is backed by a whale and loves to see flops.
pocket 10s oop 1/2 NL Quote
07-30-2014 , 04:36 PM
If your read is that villain 2 can be light a significant percentage of the time, just shove it all in. At this point, there's already 200+ in the pot.
pocket 10s oop 1/2 NL Quote
07-31-2014 , 09:26 AM
are we always 4bet shoving here? or can we smooth call since out of position and play our hand post flop?
pocket 10s oop 1/2 NL Quote
07-31-2014 , 10:09 AM
I have changed my answer several times since writing this response. I really am leaning towards a jam, but so many valid arguments can be made either way (flat or jam)

Your description of V2 ("will do this with any two cards, but usually has it") is somewhat confounding. I also don't think this sizing is indicative of a squeeze play.

If your read on V2 is right, the only real problem I see with shoving is that your hand sort of looks exactly like what it is, a somewhat marginal pair. I mean would you ever flat AA/KK or even QQ in this spot after the guys who call everything all flat? No. This isn't hard to figure out and based on your description, I would guess that the villains here could figure it out too. I still don't think we get looked up by worse that often. I suppose the shove probably works enough to be +EV, but I am pretty worried about V1 having exactly JJ.

The math on shoving is a little rough since it is kind of early in the morning, but I think it looks something like this if we give our hand 30% equity when called. (I am doing 30% because I'm assuming some AK is in there along with better pairs) - I'm also assuming we don't get called in two spots and I am estimating the pot size)

250(x) + (.3(1400(1-x))) - 580 (1-x) = 0
250x + 420 - 420x = 580 - 580 x
410x = 160
x = 160/410 = .39

So if our hand is 30% when called, which is probably underestimating our equity, we'd need a fold here 39% of the time to break even.

All of that said, flatting isn't horrible as it is 65 into 250 ish with a lot of money behind.
Folding is probably out of the question as you are closing the action in what is developing to be a ridiculous pot with a pair.

If V2 wasn't a bigger game player who might decide to gambol with KQs (which I think he might) I probably lean towards a jam. Otherwise, I just call and set mine.
pocket 10s oop 1/2 NL Quote
07-31-2014 , 10:53 AM
You're only 120bb deep because of the straddle. This is a tough spot but I'm pretty sure folding is the right play long term. You're not deep enough to set mine and even when you hit, you won't always get paid off when they have AK, AQ or whatever other hand they have. We need a better read on V1s 3bet calling range and V2s 3betting range. I'd probably shove AK, QQ here but shoving JJ, TT is spew I think against two villains
pocket 10s oop 1/2 NL Quote
07-31-2014 , 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankyRizzo
are we always 4bet shoving here? or can we smooth call since out of position and play our hand post flop?
Obv not ALWAYS shoving.

But with you description of v we either shove or fold. Leaning towards fold tho. You should have 3bet.

And why would you say being out of position would be a reason to favor playing a hand post flop. Being out of position should be a reason to avoid playing post flop
pocket 10s oop 1/2 NL Quote

      
m