Live 2/5 with ~1k stacks
-Villain is a good, aggressive young player. He has squeezed 4-5 times in the last half an hour.. 3betting after a raise and 3-4 callers (at least $100 in the pot already).
-Loose table overall..lots of limp calling

-Hero makes it 25 UTG with 1010(have a pretty tight, solid image)
-4 players call
-Villain 3bets to 155 in the BB
-Hero?

Is a fold too tight here? I feel like all 3 options are on the table. The Villain's range is wide but he's never 3bet against an UTG or UTG+1 open earlier.. so I'm not really loving this situation. What do you guys think?

Cheers

I think I would call vs this guy and play a flop IP against him; I don't like a fold here that much against a player that is capable of 3!'ing a lot of hands

I think you HU very often when you call

Just fold, you’re at the bottom of your raising range and you block his bluffs. BB vs UTG 3bets are very different than LP vs blind squeezing

If he is a good, positionally aware villain (like it sounds) than he recognizes your image and position, and his 3bet range is significantly tighter from the BB than you might perceive it to be based on the history. Because of this, I would lean fold.

If we read villain as a bad LAG that we have a postflop advantage against I would lean flat since we are in position.

If we read villain as a preflop spew maniac, I would 4bet.

What? We’re opening all pairs at games with 1k+ stacks so we’re well into the middle-upper portion of our range. Further, villain should be sizing $175-225 here so his small sizing is very likely a tell. And given this is his SIXTH squeeze in the last 30-45 minutes he’s probably just insanely overbluffing in every squeeze spot.

Real question seems to be whether to flat or 4bet.

I most definitely wouldnt open 22-44 even at 200bb

As I said, squeezing 5 times is different than squeezing in BB vs UTG open where he’s incentivized to just flat a lot closing action and given ranges. no matter how wide he’s 3betting or squeezing his BB 3b range is significantly tighter in this soot than his other ranges

Saying he’s overbluffing in every squeeze spot is wrong. Yeah he can be overbluffing in a lot of spots but you cant draw absolutes like that from a 30 minute sample, esp given dynamics (UTG vs BB). As someone else also stated, if OP said he was a bad lag or maniac and thus is probably not positionally aware, id flat or 4b

Don't think with these reads and how often this guy is squeezing that we should be folding here. I'm assuming if we call this guy is competent enough to barrel post and will be tough to call down esp with over
Lean 4bet/fold. With tight image and raising from utg, BB should only be playing back with a very tight range vs 4b and can fold out his bluffs and some better overs like AJ, AQ etc

I think you’re lack of live experience is showing. Someone who squeezes 5 times in their first half hour is almost always a bad lag or maniac. Giving live players too much credit is a huge leak. 30 minutes is a big enough sample to start making adjustments. It’s just a common sense application of Bayes.

You can also open wider live because 3-bet ranges are not-tight. I think 22-44 are fine opens under average conditions, although maybe not at this table if villain is 3-betting a lot.

calling is the best play by a wide margin imo

+1 his sizing is way to small to go anywhere. Your getting a pretty good price to set mine this with position against a light 3bettor. If you were deeper this would be a slam dunk 4bet based on how youve described V

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This is a tough spot because if you were to call you are incentivise a whole swarm of limp callers while in a bad post flop position. That being said as a self proclaimed maniac when there is utg opens for 25 and there are 4 limpers I love to squeeze a very large range. When we believe that our opponent has a wide range and will bluff off on later streets the best option is to just call with a wider range with us calling down light vs villain and 4 betting a much more polar range. Would love feedback! new here and just trying to give the best advice I can.

this. almost everything is better than folding though, including 4b/c and shove and 4b/f

I would say you should 4 betting a more linear range would be better.meaning we should be betting for value with weaker hands than we would if V's range wasnt so wide. You should polarize your range when V has a tighter range.

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Well I’m going off what OP said. He said he was a good young aggressive player, and if that is true he is positionally aware most likely. Being good basically implies you are positionally aware, and positionally aware people know to squeeze tighter in these spots... therefore we shouldnt be gii’ing too light here, etc you see where this is going. If he’s a bad LAG OP made bad reads and obviously im going to respond differently. If OP didnt specify whether he was a good lag or not, i would have said it was close and i dont mind 4b/gii

Idk about you but ive had streaks where I 3b a ton of hands within the first 50 hands i played on a table and were dealt a lot of premiums, or standard 3b hands blinds vs LP. Yes, it’s likely he is making a move here but whether or not he’s doing it enough to justify 4b/stacking off 200bb deep is the real question.

I think flatting is slightly worse than 4-betting, so if we 4b we have to be willing to gii. I dont think 4-betting here is a fist pump hence the fold

It depends on the table but opening 22-44 utg with a crazy guy on the table is an easy way to torch money

You’re also ignoring the dynamic where one of the cold callers or flatters is trapping here with a monster and is waiting for the BB to squeeze here

He has 40 combos of strong hands here that will probably gii given his terrible image (JJ+, AK) and there are say 5-10 combos of traps behind us. He needs a toooon of bluff squeezes BB vs UTG to even warrant a 4b or flat here to make it BE or +EV

Make it 450 at least sometimes. With 4 callers behind there is some smaller percentage of AA available to SB, but only a quarter less AK. Unblocking JJ and QQ is nice and those have to fold. Gets through a lot.

If I had a spazzy AF image and squeezed 6 times in 30 minutes, there is no way I am ever folding JJ let alone QQ to a 4b, even 200bb deep. I mean yeah he folds JJ here occasionally but expecting him to fold QQ at any reasonable frequency is just too optimistic

I mean you want to fold tens in this spot...

You might have fold anyway when your tight, solid, playing to win opponent 5x utg and then value 4bs you full stacked. You’re really left leveling yourself as to whether or not you’re being re-toyed with, probably not, well maybe, but maybe not, christ this spot sucks now.

I find myself in this spot fairly often and I don’t have a good answer. Folding definitely isn’t crazy. I wouldn’t be surprised if the EV of all 3 options were similar.

Ez fold with not much invested given your image and position. Calling here with this SPR is lighting money on fire unless you’re willing to call him down postflop when you don’t flop a set.

Great discussion guys.

So, I tanked and ultimately..folded. Atm, I felt like I should of jammed in hindsight but having read all of the replies, it seems like it's pretty close either way.

@Minatorr.. he's definitely a good, positionally aware LAG. Not a spewy maniac.

If I'm 4betting I think I would be shoving with almost 300 already in there and to maximize my FE against hands like AJ, AQ and JJ.

And the problem with flatting is.. he'll barrel most boards and there aren't too many good flops for me so it's an uphill battle. Essentially set mining.

Cheers

lol. never folding against someone who has squeezed 3 times in one down.

more likely 4! to 400

He will barrel most boards but lets not act like TT is the same thing as 66; you will flop OP 25% of the time and set or better 12% of the time


Also say the flop comes J73 (r); and he cbets; I don't think we should just give up ; like you said he will barrel most boards so we can get sticky post

Folding is worst option. We have more than enough evidence this guy is squeezing light to pick up nice size pots.

10''s is way ahead of what his likely squeezing range is here. We need 30% equity to continue. So calling and playing postflop IP is obviously +EV

I would 4 bet to 375. With plan to call 5 bet. Denying equity to a lot of overcards with $280 in pot is really nice. If he decides to flat 4bet (unlikely given sizing) we can comfortably GII postflop on majority of flops.

Folding is obv not a viable option. Just because he squeezes a lot doesnt necessarily mean his positional awareness is that great. Flatting and 4betting both have merits.
FWIW I usually open every pair in a cashgame UTG. There is too much money in sets to ever let go. If there are a couple smallstacks one might reconsider. If there is a crazy 3better on the table, limping the smaller pairs can be an option