Long time lurker, first time poster.

I usually don't second-guess hands this much, but this one is eating at me a bit, so I'd just like some opinions.

The situation: I'm on the button at a Philly casino in 5-2 NL with 54 and a stack of almost exactly 600.

Preflop, it folds to the hijack, a strong LAG who limps. Cutoff folds, I limp, SB (TAG dude who has made a couple good plays but also paid off a big river bet with a dry top pair) raises to 15. BB folds, Hijack calls, I call the extra 10. Pot = $45 (post rake).

Flop: 556. SB leads out for 25, hijack calls. I raise to 115. SB calls, hijack thinks for a couple seconds and calls. Pot = $390. I have $470 behind, and both opponents have me covered.

Turn: Q. SB checks, Hijack checks.

My thinking at this point is that the SB would've just completed unless he had a big hand preflop. The only things that worry me here are 66 and QQ. I'm also pretty sure that the Hijack's range includes a lot of open-enders and more than a few weak 5s (85o, etc), I am also pretty sure that he's willing to lay down the weak (but better than mine) set to a big bet.

My thinking is that since the SB has paid off with top-pair type hands, the shock-value of the shove might induce a call with AA and KK, and would increase my fold equity in the event that the Hijack held the case 5.

I shove. SB snap calls and tables 66. Hijack folds (later tells me he had 87s).

Normally I wouldn't mention the river, but, well: 5.

So, yes, good result, but I still can't help thinking I might've possibly avoided the $450 Sklansky ship on the turn.

So, questions: Was the action on the flop -- two callers of a big raise on a dry board -- sufficient that I should've checked behind? Should I have bet c. 150 and then folded to a shove (and can I / should I even get away in that situation)? Or was I just going (Sklansky) broke here? Thoughts appreciated.

Don't limp. Raise or fold preflop. Probably fold.

When you limp you're basically just trying to hit something. And when you do hit with 54o, it's really hard for someone else to have a worse hand that can pay you off.

I rarely limp with anything, actually. But there were a lot of community pots at this table and I thought for precisely the reason you mentioned that I'd use position to win myself a small pot (depending on the flop, of course).

You might be right about preflop (and I did contemplate kicking it in for a second), but as played to the turn, what do you do when it goes check-check?

Dunno. I don't think people who just lost a big pot with one pair are going to be inclined to raise TT+ to $15 out of the SB against two limpers. To me SB's hand looks like a gambling hand that likes multiway action: either a small pp or Axs.

In any case, on the flop I would raise smaller, to $95 or so, since you can get all-in with that sizing just as easily. As played, once you're called in two places, I would check the turn.

Seems like just wishful thinking to believe that HJ---someone who apparently called a 3/4 psb out of position with 87 on 556 with ~1.2 psb remaining---is ever folding trips here. If SB did have KK+, I agree he might call, but again I don't think he has that after preflop.

I might check back the turn with the BB and CO calling the raise. I like the ranging of the CO with this board texture and if accurate gives him 4 live outs to beat us if he is OE and seeing as we have a 5 him having one is obv less likely, but the BB flatting facing a limp/call/raise smells fishy. Even a decent player would maybe c/eval turn with an overpair but AP your 5x hand is basically face up, so he is either just trying to hit his 2 outter ( we assume he has decent pair combos considering the preflop action and raise call) or has us crushed. Q isnt a great card but again there are way more hands that we beat at this point, so checking back would give him chance to stab the river and us to snap him off.

Nh though.

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I think you guys are right about checking behind (and possibly the .6 rather than .75 psb on the flop). Which is why I'm kicking myself over this.

However, I should clarify -- SB did not just lose a big pot with one pair, this was about an hour previously, it's just that his call there was *memorably* bad. Also, his play preflop had been *extremely* tight and consistent. If he showed me anything other than 44+, AJ+, or two suited broadway there preflop I would have been shocked.

Any hand involving a 5 was simply not an option for him -- that's part of why I played as I did. It was 66, (maybe) QQ, or I was ahead. And the hijack had previously laid down A6 to my AK after the turn on an AAxx board.

Not trying to defend the play (which was, as I felt, and you guys have pretty well explained, stupid on a couple fronts), but does the shove move down to borderline stupid if you know that the Hijack can (and probably will) fold a 5, and that the SB is limited to the boat or two pair?

Meh. Probably still just stupid.

Live and learn, none of us are perfect that's where these types of things come in handy.

Given your history on the HJ you can possibly have some FE in shoving, but personally he would be the least of my concerns considering the action in this hand. The BB flat calling after your raise with the HJ still to act is just sooooo strong. IMO its one of those only getting called by better situations, shoving is going to fold out the draws we have great equity against and even every over pair the BB could hold.

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Thanks. I feel better now. Was trying to figure out why I felt so awful about this, and that's it. On the bright side, it's a rare occasion in this game when you get paid to learn something

No one has pointed this out yet, but why are we raising the flop? As DK pointed out already, it's hard for someone else to have a hand worse than yours that they're going to pay off big bets with. So I think in this spot we might want to think about slowplaying the flop--especially because we really, really do not want 87 to fold.

I agree with this as well, and didn't go into it with my reply. There's def more cons than pros in raising - with there only being 1 feasible draw on the board its hard to get value from worse. Worst case scenario the BB re pops us and we're stuck in limbo with raggy trips, although its unlikely the BB raises pre with an A5 combo we'd be forced to reconsider our hand, no?



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Exactly this. What worse is calling that raise? Turn raise is so much better. We probably can't get stacks in flatting the flop, but trips no kicker isn't exactly a spot to want to get stacks in. Sometimes the way to get max value is to use pos. and let V(s) value themselves the whole way. It turns out you were beat (and rivered gin) but with this hand and this flop I think calling every street would have been my plan once the flop hit.

As I said, A5 or similar for the SB was simply not a possibility here. That's what screwed with my mind in this hand. I had been to the SB's immediate right for 4 hours, and his preflop play was beyond consistent. He had been limping/calling consistently with anything short of a premium hand and raising 15-20 with his top holdings.

Once he bets the flop his range is 66+ and assorted over cards. Nothing else. Ever. (I know, I hate those idiots with really specific "reads" and almost never trust mine to this extent, but I would have been *shocked* to see this particular guy turn over a 5). HJ was loose/tricky enough that his initial call could have been a lot of things.

I agree that I should've raised a bit less, but if I *know* the SB doesn't have a 5, I *know* he's capable of calling off big chunks with an overpair that's obviously beat, and I'm relatively sure (as was in fact the case) that HJ will pay me with 87, what possible combinations of hands (other than SB having 66 and actually being smart enough to lead with it) end up with me either winning more or losing less by flatting it?

I just wanted to point out, folding A-rag on an AA board is not the same as folding 5x on a 55 board. On average players are going to have many more Aces in their hands when they see the flop than 5's, so it's much easier to believe you are behind on the AA board. As such folding A6 is not necessarily analogous to folding a 5 here.

True. And I might've been wrong in my assessment. But folding to a standard c-bet and second barrel on the turn is also not analogous to folding to a pot-sized shove that follows a heavy flop raise

uuum big pocket pairs will call a flop raise and depending on opponent OESD. Nothing wrong with raising flop. Reading this hand in isolation, i dont see any hand that will call your turn shove that you beat.

Wow 1 outer. SB must have puked.

Limping pre no good / fold.

As played the flop raise is fine (except for sizing-i would raise a little less 3x transparent which would keep the wide range of calls i expect.) if you figured that the players would call with plenty worse ---which i would assume so (lol at the HJ calling the raise).

Up against any reasonable player who thinks - we cannot raise the flop.

On the turn i would bet half pot since the Q hurts our target range for valuebetting quite a bit---plus the villain only raised a pot sweetener 15 pre, so he doesnt have AA KK etc. More like 88 99 and now he faces a Q overcard.

If he check raised the turn i would easily fold.

I'm on board with these comments for the most part.

The bolded is the key to the hand. It doesn't matter that there isn't a wide range of hands that beat you--you have to play the hand in such a way that you maximize value from hands you beat. If you know that overpairs will play for "big chunks" but not for stacks, then you probably shouldn't set up playing for stacks with a flop raise. You can extract part of the stacks over multiple streets of betting without raising the flop.

Also, the HJ with 87 didn't call the turn shove anyway. So if you had not raised the flop, he might have called a bet on the turn that was the same size as the flop raise--or, he might have hit a 4 and got it in drawing dead. Or, he might have folded the turn anyway but forfeited some equity. None of these outcomes is too bad for you.

You can also maybe even use your position to get away if HJ turns out to have flopped or turned a monster and raises the turn in front of you, or if SB shoves the river (since you know he would not do that with an overpair).