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Playing top set here in tough spot Playing top set here in tough spot

03-29-2018 , 03:03 PM
Playing 1/2 in upstate NY recently, ran into this hand.

9-handed, 300 buy-in, I had ~350 by this hand. The other two villains relevant to hand (V1 and V2) had about 130 and 280 stacks, respectively-- was only at table for a few orbits so had no real reads on individuals yet, but game was very passive so far...lots of limping and small pots. Only a couple pots of significant size involved players with strong hands. Most players seemed rather tight.

Early position (UTG+1 if I recall) w/ QQ, I open raise to 7. Player to my immediate left, the button, and BB call. 4 players to flop, $29 pot.

Flop T94 rainbow.

BB checks, I bet $20, player to my left and button both call. BB folds. $89 pot.

Turn is Q giving me top set, and completing rainbow board.

I bet 40, which in retrospect I think is too small with two opponents left to act and the board getting wet. I probably go pot next time.

I'm feeling good about the hand but then things go weird. V1 shoves for his remaining short stack (my bet plus another 60ish), that I plan to call, but then the button V2 re-shoves all-in, for ~$250-270 total.

At this point life stinks because I feel strongly that someone must have KJ the way the hand played. Overpairs can be ruled out w no 3-bet preflop, although there's probably a lot of 2 pair/lower set combos in their range, and healthy side pot if I have V2 beat. I still have ~20% equity in case I am wrong, but this is tough for me to get away from though I estimate that I am beat most of the time here.

How are you thinking about proceeding and can anyone hero fold here? Outcome of hand for a later comment.

Last edited by cmc0605; 03-29-2018 at 03:14 PM.
Playing top set here in tough spot Quote
03-29-2018 , 03:25 PM
Honestly, I can't see myself ever folding this for this amount of money. Nobody in live 1/2 poker folds top set OTT unless there's like 4 to a straight or flush.

Yes, people might argue you are probably beat and don't have pot odds. But put them in this same situation and they probably make a sigh-call. It's tough to fold top set. Sorry if this was a cooler.
Playing top set here in tough spot Quote
03-29-2018 , 03:26 PM
It’s about as obvious a call as it could be
Playing top set here in tough spot Quote
03-29-2018 , 03:53 PM
Maybe it was my read at the time, I felt very uncomfortable but sigh called...the outcome was that both players had KJ, and I rivered quad Q's. It was my biggest pot ever at the time and propelled me to a great session after that.

Still somewhat of a memorable hand for me and I still lean 70/30 that I played it (mostly) right.
Playing top set here in tough spot Quote
03-29-2018 , 06:57 PM
Easiest call in the history of poker. No, wait: there's another thread at the moment where someone rivers top boat with AA on 9957A and gets shoved on. That thread officially makes this the second easiest call of all time.
Playing top set here in tough spot Quote
03-29-2018 , 11:15 PM
Yeah, have to call here. Sucks you were behind but have to call.
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03-30-2018 , 01:19 AM
I don’t play much $1/2 but even in the most passive limp filled games there is no way I’m opening for less than $12 from EP with anything and certainly not QQ.
Playing top set here in tough spot Quote
03-30-2018 , 05:19 AM
preflop is to small you aren't never going to thin the field with that sizing

make it 10-15 at 1/2 game

every 2$ for each limper in future

flop is standard bet sizing is fine 20 into 29

turn sizing is to small I like 55-60

and yes this is a snap call he makes the same exact play with all other sets and possibly 2 pair combos its 1/2 people do crazy sh*t

even if he does have kj we can still bink river for the scoop

if he has KJ just a cooler its part of the game

don't think of one hand that beats you think of his range of hands he could have here
Playing top set here in tough spot Quote
03-30-2018 , 06:34 AM
I think following the action that occured on the turn we're probably against a strong range that looks like this, that does'nt have many bluffs with no equity :
Straights : KJs
Sets: TT ; 99 ; 44
2 Pairs : QT / Q9 / T9
P+Straight draw : JJ / QJ / JT / J9
We see that there's way way more hands that we beat compared to the KJs that beats us. Adding the fact that we still have almost 23% to improve to a full house if we are beat now, I think this is a call and "hope he doesn't have it"
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03-30-2018 , 04:47 PM
Most people would benefit to never opening to less than $10 at 1/2 and $15 at 1/3.

Anything less is either perceived as weakness or gives short stacks good odds.

Never folding here either.
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