It has occurred to me that I think I am losing some value in this spot. It occurs from time to time. Goes like this.

1/2 game. Loose, bad players. Various stack sizes from 20bb to 200. Hero, on the button, has about 150bb.

There is an EP (standard TAG range) raise for 10 bucks (exactly 150bb as he tops off between hands) and it gets 5 callers. It gets to me I have KK. I make a PSB of 60 bucks. I am called in 3 spots!?!?!.

OR is the only one I put on a strong range. He plays solid values. To call I put him on JJ+ and AK. I think he would fold everything else. I am a little worried he flatted with AA. (I could do that here, at times) The other two are total fish. I am totally committed to them as they have <70bb. I am not trying to read them. (prob set mining though LOL)

Flop comes J64. It is checked to me. I am not sure what to do. I mean, I beat ORs, QQ and AK but lose to JJ and AA. I check. Is this horrible? I am thinking, if I lead here, I get folds from AK. I get action from QQ. I lose more to JJ and AA. I am thinking that it is WAWB and a free card won't hurt much and I may save some $ if I am beat. Plus induce action later. blah blah. (Really, I think I just feel weird building a $600 pot with one pair and I am justifying that. LOL.)

Turn blanks and I bet an (admittedly week) 75 bucks. OR calls, the others fold. River blanks. It is checked to me. The pot is big and I check. I rake in a nice pot. Yay me.

But I KNOW I am playing these spots wrong. I never really feel like I know what to do in these spots. When I think about it I know I am leaving a ton of value on the table.

Should I just grow a pair and commit with my pair? Commit conditionally? I know the SPR is great for overpairs here. to be honest I get a little freaked out getting all-in so deep with just a pair. I think of all the people I stack when they have AA or KK unimproved and commit. (I know it is different because of the huge PFR they are calling)

Thoughts?



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Lol this is a sweet board. Delayed c-bet all the way. People will put you on AK a lot ott and sometimes shove a pair to get you off.
Shove turn. Their calling is pretty inelastic.
Obv shove river as played.

As a note which im sure many other posters will say: if you're getting 3 callers in this spot you can raise larger for value pf.

Bet flop/shove turn, never leave this table. Easy game.

I would raise more preflop. If Villian will call $60 preflop, would he fold to $75 or $80. This will lead to villain committing himself even when he binks the flop.

So there's over $250 in pot and you have about $240 left. Bet $100 on flop and get it in on turn. Learn SPR fully. You have to get over your current mindset. Basically you are playing either scared money or like a nit who constantly fears the nuts. Until you can overcome this, you will never crush the game no matter what else you do.

I totally agree. I am a little on the nitty side. I think Dan Harrington scared me into thinking everyone had the nuts in HOC and I am just realizing how much money that leaves on the table. LOLJK.

Thanks.

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HOC is a good book but a bit misleading in a few cases because the book focuses on high quality deep stack play. These multiway low SPR situations don't usually come up in the sort of games he is talking about. His tournament books are actually more applicable to this situation because what your looking at is closer to a late tournament situation where everybody has a short stack. He doesn't use the SPR term, but the principle is the same as the M terminology he does use. And he makes the correct recommendation, your only decision is how best to get your money in here.

I like $100/$125 on flop and shove turn, but your stack is small enough that shoving into pot might be better. Depends on your villains.

I have not read HOH. It is on the (loooooong) list though. I think I am realizing how much value I leave in peoples stacks that should come home with me. Agreed on HOC being not-the-best (in this area) as he pretty much assumes everyone is a grizzled old deep-stack veteran.

Thanks.

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Read "Professional No Limit Hold Em" (Flynn/ Mehta/ Miller).

5 ways to you, raise to $90-100. You're wanting to scoop the dead money & play head's up. A second caller pre- and you auto-bomb all flops that do not contain an Ace.

150bb is deep enough to worry about playing it another way at the table you describe.

Do not be the typical "Showdown Monkey"! Almost every player just wants to get to a free showdown with TP hands and that means a ton of lost value.

Exactly how many players from 1/2 to 2/5 ever river bluff these spots? Almost none. Another option is to bet-fold. Always bet-fold. Pot in your situation is $390. Villain has $185 remaining, so, as stated previously, a shove is in order. However, if you believe you might be behind or free a shove will fold out worse, then bet something like $85 and fold to a shove.

I play deeper stack 2/5nl, so maybe bet-fold applies better here, but nevertheless, betting the river is better than checking.

Let's talk combos.

You are losing to:

JJ (3 combos)
AA (3 combos). It's really 6 combos of AA, but I'm taking away half (because he only flats with aces some of the time).

You are beating QQ (6 combos)
And AK (8 combos, 4 aces and 2 kings)

You are ahead 14 times and behind 6. You are ahead way more often than behind. Bet for value. Let him fold AK - he has a bit of equity if he spikes an aces on the turn, so we profit a bit by making him give up that equity. (the math says it's 6%, but we're holding Ace Magnets, so I content it's way more).

If you feel like you'll get no action from the hands you're beating, then squeeze against this player more. Make him have to auto-commit with queens, and check/shove gutshots with AK (JTx boards), thinking he has some fold equity because your range is not always also JJ+/AK also. Now you always get paid with your overpairs b/c villain can't always put you on one.

Agreed. That's exactly what I have been doing. Playing my 1 pair hands like 1/2 is full of nits! I recently realized just that. If I have AQ on a Q--high flop, they will follow me to the river with QT. If they spike their T, they'll let me know. If they bluff at all, they bluff every other hands and I will know. If they are 90y/o OMC's that haven't seen a showdown in 3 sessions, okay-slow down. But I really need to be getting more value out of my med strength hands. Thanks for your reply.

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I read that book. But, truth be told, I don't think I totally got it. I had been playing just a couple months then. (I have only been playing about 14mo. Now) I am going to reread it again and I have a feeling it will click this time. Thanks for your recommendation.

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I see you're right here. Lots more combos that I beat. I think this is a better way to think about it than ......"don't go broke with one pair!" LOL.

Thanks for your advice.

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I like the delay 1/2 stack c-bet. You need to make them pay a little more for whatever they were calling with. A touch more PF wouldnt hurt either. This looks like a steal on the button as well so betting a bit more wouldnt hurt.

Dont expect AA to smooth OOP very often in low limit games ... If they are anywhere competent they will want the dead money as well and avoid a Flop situation unless pressed into one by an all-in.

If you then smooth a 4-bet then that puts you square on AK/KK/QQ IMO and cross fingers for no Ace Flop but you still might be behind.

Make um pay ... c-bet or shove and shove any non-Ace Turn as well. GL

Just bet the flop. Pot is what $250 and you have about that amount left?
Let's not get tricky - take the maneys.

Also, bet/fold (on this board) is absurd when you have about a PSB left. You can bet smaller than AI to induce action, but I wouldn't go any lower than 1/2pot.

Gotcha and I agree. Thx

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why would you not bet flop. It sounds like you're under rolled and scared

Gii otf ... If you lose rebuy and do it again

+1

+1

These fish won't fold aj, kj, qj, j10, j9 or qq.

If they all fold be really happy about picking up $180 uncontested.

holy **** this is bad advice I hope you're leveling