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Playing Multi-way Draws Playing Multi-way Draws

05-03-2013 , 07:00 PM
I am a relatively long-time MTT player, new to cash. This week I've been practicing my short stack play at 1/2 trying to grow my tiny bankroll. Played two sessions earlier in the week, bought in for $100, left with $400 both times. Today bought in twice for $100, lost both buy-ins.

The following hand was in my 2nd buy in today and I am wondering if a better line could have taken down the pot. I have been playing fairly tight with my short stack and have taken down a couple pots PF that were good hands I would have liked to get callers with. The tightness of the table is making me open up a little in LP.

PF: I have KsTs on the button. The straddle is on to $4, one player in the CO has limped, I raise to $15, SB calls, BB and straddle fold, CO calls.

Flop: 9s6c7d. Check, check, check. Pot is $51.
Turn: Js. CO bets $20, I call, SB calls. Pot is $111.
River: 9d. Check, check, check. CO shows 88. I have nothing, SB takes it down with TT.

I had $100 PF, $85 on the flop, and $65 on the river. I am wondering if given my flush and straight draws on the turn a semi-bluff shove is a better line. It seems aggressive to me, but as I said I am new to cash. Have been frequently losing large chunks of my short stack with these types of multi-way draws. Understandably when they hit, I can double and triple my stack, but I am wondering if there is a way to make them have higher fold equity in the cases I don't hit, like this hand.
Playing Multi-way Draws Quote
05-03-2013 , 07:44 PM
I guess you could have raised the turn bet to take control...the problem though readless its spew...we don't really know if they are going to fold...and the fact that you don't currently having a winning image makes this even more of a call then a raise.
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05-03-2013 , 08:29 PM
When he leads the turn with such a small size, and we have so many outs and a short stack...let's just put it all in. We have just about enough equity even if we get one caller. If we get folds, good for us. If they all call..good for us.

I'd jam the turn over his $20 lead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigpants
I guess you could have raised the turn bet to take control...the problem though readless its spew...we don't really know if they are going to fold...and the fact that you don't currently having a winning image makes this even more of a call then a raise.
its not spew. When Villain leads there is ~$71 in the pot, we have ~$85 before our ship. We have ~33% or beter. We are printing money if we get folds or not. We jam in hopes both call and we bink, obv.
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05-03-2013 , 08:38 PM
well plaed
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05-04-2013 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady85
This week I've been practicing my short stack play at 1/2 trying to grow my tiny bankroll.
The thing is, the hand you describe here is not a really good hand to play short stacked. Without the weight of a big bet behind, I would guess this hand is a solid loser. You have to realize that the deeper stacks get, the more hand values start to merge, the more shallow the stacks, the more value premium hands have. The nice thing about playing short is that people will look you up light, and the bad thing about playing short is that people will look you up light.

What makes a hand like KT profitable is the implied odds when you hit a monster, however, your own stack is way too short to take advantage of this here. I mean, you are not playing this hand for top pair, right? If this table is playing weak-tight, you can play ATC from the button for a raise, but you didn't play this hand that way. You need to cbet this flop, and when called, you are just done. Also, as I mentioned above, even at a weak tight table, YOU are gonna get looked up a lot lighter than the guy with 400 in front of him. I usually sit down short stacked, and within a couple of hours, am usually one of the deepest stacks at the table, so I get to see both sides of the dynamic. It is really interesting to watch.

Anyway, for this hand as played, HandShaker is absolutely correct, On the turn against 2 random hands, you are 44% to win, and even against both of these exact hands (if they were playing face up) you have 36% equity, so ship it, and embrace the variance!

Good luck with your short stack experiment, as I said I really enjoy it, just remember, look for hands that play better heads up or 3 way in a raised pot.
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05-04-2013 , 01:34 PM
not entirely sure on optimal short stack strategy, but i assume it wouldn't be terrible to jam turn if you thought you had any bit of fe.

short stacked, all i'm really looking to do is get it in with tp against a wider range and play my strong draws extremely aggressive
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05-04-2013 , 08:31 PM
As far as short stacked play ... I would be shoving over the top of this weakish turn bet looking for everyone to fold out or living with my double guting flush draw. This is exactly why you play that hand and go for limited risk double ups.

If you dont shove here, then I agree you need to be looking for a smaller range of hands to play that you are going to raise with as the pots will get bloated often and force you into these spots. Limping with this hand short is fine as you can really put your opponents to the test with a turn shove here for a much bigger pot ratio. You dont win as much but the small stack size has a more 'tournament' feel to it on the turn.

I would play this both ways short, but would probably always cbet this board if I raised OTB PF ...thus making it a no-brainer shove/call on the turn. GL
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05-04-2013 , 11:27 PM
Perfectly played IMO.
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