Villian #1- Late 20's white dude, he's a prop player for casino, not your usual prop player, he will play aggressive and show up with weird hands every so often. Has me covered.

Villian #2- mid 30's Mexican dude, just off work, drinking beers, loose. $65

Hero: V1 probably sees me as TAG as I have played lots with him, we have never spoken and haven't played many hands heads up vs one another. V2 probably has no view of me, he's doesn't seem like type of guy to care . I'm up to about $725 from $300 and has shown down winners to get there.

Pre flop Action: V-1 in EP raises to 13, 2 callers, I decide to call from BB with Ac2c Thoughts? Pot $50

Flop Jc10c6s

Flop action: I check my NFD, V-1 c-bets $25, V-2 pushes all in for $52, button folds and I decide to flat. Not sure that was correct move, I was planning on folding if V-1 pushed more so is that call spewy? I was hoping the all in player dynamics might get him to check turn down. Luckily V-1 just called. Pot $205

Turn: As

Turn action: I check, hoping I just outdrew his QQ or KK but he decides to fire another barrel of $110. Action to me- Thoughts? Pot is at $315 with action back on me.

Call preflop is atrocious.

Call on flop is kinda bad since V1 can reopen the action.

Turn is an easy fold.

Fold pre

We are really deep with that sizing, dude. I don't think pf is atrocious.

I don't think turn is an easy fold either... We have implied IMO.

Are you trolling?

You probably shouldn't be calling pre OOP with Axs if you aren't prepared to call a bet on the flop with the NFD. You have good implied odds given V1's stack and good equity against his range on the flop, if you are getting the right price you should be calling, folding turn to a big bet obviously. I don't think the flat on the flop was so bad.

I know it's hard for us to hit hard enough to really get money in a lot of the time. What are some peoples' rules for correct implied odds with Axs?

Lol at all the fold pre replies. Were deep and we have a suited Ax hand. What are we waiting for to play? Flop is a standard x/call. I'm calling turn as well. River action?

I also realize implied odds for hitting a flush are lower because everyone is always worried about it. Unless of course someone else makes their flush too, in which case we can stack them.

Still not really seeing a lot of your POV helper.

I'm with you dude. Re evaluate OTR. I think we can fold the naked ace to a lot of bet sizings

Preflop should be a fold more then a call, but I would venture a call here occasionally also. You and V1 are just deep enough to make this call OOP but having other short stacks in the hand make it thin. Flop is not a good one for your hand because it is too much of an action flop. As soon as you check/call villains are going to think your drawing to something and since you have the obvious draw you should just check/fold. In any case, fold turn. Your not getting the direct odds to call and your never making any money on river unless you hit flush over flush against V1.

The thing to remember in these cases is that somebody being all in does tend to reduce action but it also often kills your implied odds with draws. If the flush comes in opponents without a flush are quicker to fold because they know there is less bluffing and more opponents they have to beat to take down the pot.

I'm leaning towards folding pre. Were it a late position raise, I'd consider 3betting, but an EP raise is usually a pretty good hand and we can't play our naked ace for anything but small pots.

I call the flop

I also call the turn. Not only do you have flush outs, but you picked up 3 2's as I think two pair can win here a bunch of times as well. 12 outs, is 24% shorthand, and you're getting close to 3:1, so I call there.

Preflop ain't great. If V1 ain't horrendous postflop then it's unlikely we're going to make too much off of him (especially OOP). V2 is way too short to care about. So we're basically hoping there's another deepish moron in the hand. We're getting a good price and going to go 4way, but meh, I think I would pass. If V2 was deeper I could get behind it.

I would also just check/call. Our call can actually look quite nuttish here to V1 sometimes, so he might not get out-of-line. And if he doesn't call we're already getting the required odds to call V2's shove.

I think I would also just check the turn. At this point we have a mediocre made hand where we don't want to get 2 more streets of betting in, so we're cool with just trying to get one more bet in on the river if he checks the turn (although admittedly it's unlikely we'll get paid off since we should never be bluffing in this protected pot). KQ did just get there (very reasonable hand given the play so far).

We're getting 3:1 on the turn. Chances are that Villain has quite a big hand at this point (AJ/AT/KQ). We need to make up a bet on the river if our flush draw comes in, although a couple of those outs put 4-to-a-straight on board. The pot is protected so he knows it's unlikely we'll be bluffing air on the river. It's close, imo, and really relies on Villain's capability of folding big hands.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Our other "outs" (A/2) might have horrendous RIO if our hand is second best.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Knowing the other stack size in the hand would help, but assuming V3 isn't real short this seems like a pretty routine PF call to me. If we're afraid to play a suited Ace in a 4-way pot against two decent-sized stacks, then when are we playing it?

I'm surprised no one's advocated donking the flop here. The problem with a x/c - and especially the x/c/f line the OP was planning - is we have to assume V2, with only about a PSB left, is shoving with any piece ... so V1's in the perfect position to squeeze us mercilessly. I'd have done it a ton in his spot.

By leading out for $35-40 (i.e. as little as we can without V2's shove reopening the betting), we'll not only get more information about V1's hand than by x/c'ing, but do so at a lower price. Best case scenario, he and V3 both fold, and we've bought ourselves a heads-up pot where we're a coin flip at worst against shorty's range. Worst case, he raises us big, and we don't spend any more time or money chasing our 9-outer.

AP, I only call the turn if I think V1's incapable of folding the river if I get there (and both stack sizes and my action to this point make that unlikely - another benefit to a flop donk, perhaps?). In a vacuum this is a fold IMO.

Fold>>3bet>>>>>>>call preflop imo

So Pre-flop I didn't think I made a mistake at all so it was interesting to see others think it was a mistake pre, something for me to think about going forward.

The button who I didn't describe since he folded on the flop, he was sitting on about $200 or so, he just had been stacked and rebought.

It sounds like on the flop it wasn't that great of a mistake, I realized once I cold called the all in bet I probably turned my hand face up as a flush draw because set or 2 pair, I would prob be re-popping it.

On the turn, I tanked for a bit, to me the math was close, I knew V-1 had a hand he would pay off a small value bet on river if it hit, I knew I wouldn't get his stack but if club came in, pot would be so big he would pay off a small value bet of around $100-125, that was my plan as I sat there. Not sure the thinking was correct but that's what I was thinking, I knew my Ace was no good, he was either on a set or just hit his nut straight, AJ and J10 also in range and only J10 was where another Ace or 2 or 6 would give me bigger 2 pair but although that all crossed my mind, I still felt like he had a set, so I tanked for quite some time, in the end I decided to go against my initial feeling to fold, gamble just a bit and call the $110. Pot at $420

River: 3d

I missed and checked like a lil girl and he fired $200 and I insta folded and he showed me KQo for nut straight, V-2 also had the KQo so they split main pot. So OTF I was actually ahead which I thought was interesting.

I played one more hand and then racked up $500 for a profit of $200, I wasn't happy with my call and results and just decided ehh prob not gonna play my best rest of the night so racked up and rolled out, is that a leak?

The biggest downside to the turn call is that you'll be tempted to call another value bet on the river, especially if it's small. If you improve you'll be even more tempted.

What?!? Why would you ever raise a set, or even top two pair, on this board and risk forcing out the only other player whose range you are crushing?

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With straight and flush draws out there, I'm raising for value in that spot if I had flopped a set or top two. If the flop was dry then I would prob flat and then re-eval on turn. I was OOP in this hand as well which I hate.

I also like to lead this flop if the player otb is deep also. If he is not then I would have folded pre. I think there is some discussion to be had about the preflop play. Hopefully the OP can give us that other stack size.

Button had $200.

i think I fold most of the time pre, and 3! if conditions seems right (deep player bet and a 50bb+ calls, shortstacks in the hand pre makes it an instafold for me)

This