I got 66 and aim to set mine. Eff stacks 100BB, $1/$2 NL. Call $8 raise along with 3 others.

Flop: 333

So I flopped a weird boat. I bet 1/2 pot. Only V (villain) calls. Turn irrelevant 8. I bet 1/2 pot again - because what are the chances he has another pocket pair and what are the chances his PP is higher than mine? Not very high right? V calls. I'm starting to smell a rat and check river. V bets 1/3 pot. I call. V shows Q3 for flopped quads.

So I guess my question is: was my line OK vs V's assumed range being a PP? Since quads are very unlikely that's not even the range I want to optimize my line against. Did I play this OK vs another PP?

You said you "Called in order to set mine". You did not hit your set. Your bets here are terrible. You did all the work for the villian for him. If you had let the villian do the betting his strength would have been so obvious.

The real question here is how much did you have to drink???

LOL I never drink at the table. So you don't want me to bet a flopped boat? Not even 1 street? This flop is as dry as it gets usually everyone misses it but PPs so I'm basically playing against another PP or overcards here.

Congratulations, you "flopped" a boat!!! Flopping a boat is actually really hard to do and I get a boner as well when it happens to me. OBVIOUSLY TIME TO GO ALL-in, or atleast 1/2 bet the pot on flop AND turn OOP against 3 players?

I think you got off fairly cheap here. WP I think except I go for a check/fold OTR I think. I don't see him bluffing the river with some missed over cards or a turned FD on this board cause he knows that any PP you have is FH and you'll probably call the river. Him flopping quads and you flopping a FH is kind of a cooler situation and I think you got off relatively cheap. You didn't describe he PF action enough though, like who opened, where was V? etc.

Don't remember who opened but it wasn't V.

Yeah I think it was OK too. I like check / fold on river because of his sizing, and because he might check back A high hoping its good. However calling isn't a huge mistake for a 1/3 PSB.

Ignore this trolling.

The question we need to ask ourselves in these spots are:

Can a lessor hand call my bets?

If the answer is yes, then your line is fine, if the answer is no, then your line is not fine.

On boards like this, V's will easily call down 1/3 and 1/2 pot size bets with Ace high hoping to spike their card on turn or river.

In these kinds of situations, I'm not looking to inflate the pot such that I lose pot control. I'm looking to just extract okay 1/2, 1/3 and 1/4 pot size value bets. We want to bet weak enough such that lessor hands can call, but not too weak such that we incentivize V to bluff. So I usually start off with 1/2 or even 2/3 PSB but decrease my % on each street but increase my betting increment. So, lets say pot is $20 on flop. I'll bet $12 on flop, $15 on turn, $20, on river. From the fish's perspective that line looks strong but from a % of the pot perspective I'm actually decreasing my bets as a percentage of the pot on each street. .

And I'm more or less taking a bet/fold line vs most villains unless V is a confirmed aggro that likes to bluff.

This level of trolling is not only unwarranted, but it belays a staggering amount of ignorance on your part because OP's post is a legitimate post detailing a legit problem that occurs in the LLSNL game (albeit rarely).

It is definitely interesting enough to post on 2+2 and get some feedback.

These are the kinds of hands that if you are observant you can get a decent sense of how your villains play and their skill level. Are they capable of floating? Are they comfortable floating? Do they make any moves trying to steal or do they easily surrender? Do they go for a check raise with made hands, do they overvalue pairs? Do they call down with Ace high believing its good? Or do they call down with Ace high because they just don't know what else to do? Do they back into a flush or straight and call the river value bet? Do they say, "I know you got nothing" or "I know you are bluffing" and then fold?

And how do they respond to your bets? Do they respect them or automatically assume your are FOS and then float you?...

LOL! The most results oriented reply ever. Your line was good OP. Def a c/f otr.

line is fine but you will value own yourself a fair share of the time, which again is ok.

Once he calls twice I'm pretty much giving up on the river, figuring he's got a pair bigger than mine a lot.

Same if I'm raised on flop or turn by someone who isn't outright crazy.

I'm fine with small bets on flop and turn to get value from Ax, 55-44, and to force two overs to pay if they want to keep playing.

The answer is the odds are very high. You're confusing absolute value with relative value. I think betting is OK on the flop, but once there is a call, I'm done with the hand. There's just more hands that call pf that beat us than those that don't.

Positions?? Stack sizes? reads?

Please explain bolded.

A full house, in absolute terms, is a really strong hand. 90%+ of the time when you have a full house, you're going to win. A full house, on this specific board, is not a very strong hand because any pair beats you. Therefore, relatively, the 33366 full house isn't a strong hand here.

Not exactly. AA-77 PPs beat me. I beat 22, 44 and 55. We can rule out AA-TT as those would probably be 3-bet by villain preflop. That leaves 99-77 that beat me. So in terms of PPs I'd say I'm actually about 50/50 on whether I'm behind or not. And a 3 in the hand of the V is very unlikely.

No u played fine. I dont see how u fold river bet unless u have history with opponent. The pot was raised preflop so u really dont expect anyone to play Q3 or have a 3. Only way u really foldhere is if u got a read on ur opponent

If we think about our plans for the hand, we're set-mining pre-flop. We didn't hit our set, but did flop a strong hand in the absolute sense. Relative to the action that's occured, I think we can bet the flop to extract value from smaller PPs and some Ax hands. If we make it to the turn as we did, it's going to be harder to extract value from lesser hands, so I don't know if I'm betting this or not. OP doesn't mention what the river card is, but almost all are bad for our hand. It's going to be hard to win this hand at showdown unless it gets checked through. For this reason, I will almost always c/f the river.

thanks bro.

What??????

Just no for the average 1/2 villain, they aren't 3 betting TT-QQ nearly enough

If you had TT+, I think your line was ok. But with 66, there are more overpairs than underpairs, so there's no point in value owning yourself.

What do you mean?

OK, you're right. The 3-bet range is AK, AA, KK, maybe QQ. So let's just say it's AK, AA, and KK. So then we can rule out AA and KK. Then I beat 3 PPs and lose to 6 PPs. Yes, I'm significantly behind to "another PP range" but definitely have some equity against it. Definitely not "losing to any PP" as someone said above.

You have to use the information you get through the hand to adjust the range. You can't just put unlikely hands into the "impossible. there's no way he has that" category. If one bad play (or good tricky play) by the villain can get you to remove a bunch of his possible holdings completely from your considerations, then you're going to start making mistakes.

I like dgi's post about what hands are calling you and the bets relative to the pot size stuff.