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Old 01-28-2014, 11:38 PM   #1
DUCYdonk
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Playing 100% VPiP??

About 200bb deep in position against whale playing VPiP of 100. Playing 2/5, he will lose at least 1000bb a day, sometimes 2000bb. He finds away to get stacks in ~50% of pots.

When I have position against him (like today), I've been playing 100% VPiP. I'm sure this is profitable, but I'm wondering if it is the best strategy. Other players seem unwilling to exploit and I've only been 3bet a handful of times in about 15 hours.

So, is there a better strategy?
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:43 PM   #2
TripleH68
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Re: Playing 100% VPiP??

So these are raised pots? How can nobody be adjusting? I don't buy it.
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:46 PM   #3
DUCYdonk
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Re: Playing 100% VPiP??

He is everywhere from limping to 8x bb raises. I call them all. Table VPiP goes up when he's at table, but 3b% does not go up even a little. Basically, call everything, flop gin, and have whale pay you off.
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Old 01-29-2014, 12:02 AM   #4
dufusbrain
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Sit to his RIGHT. That way you can see what everyone else does first, then raise on your value+ hands. If it goes limp, limp, whale raise 8x, call, call, call, even seen it recommended that you should jam with QJs+.
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Old 01-29-2014, 12:20 AM   #5
daniel9861
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Re: Playing 100% VPiP??

I'd prefer having the card advantage too since you'll have to go to showdown way more often against him, so like 45% of hands.
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Old 01-29-2014, 12:26 AM   #6
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Re: Playing 100% VPiP??

Quote:
Originally Posted by dufusbrain View Post
Sit to his RIGHT. That way you can see what everyone else does first, then raise on your value+ hands. If it goes limp, limp, whale raise 8x, call, call, call, even seen it recommended that you should jam with QJs+.
huh?
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Old 01-29-2014, 01:13 AM   #7
Mr_Doomed
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Re: Playing 100% VPiP??

I played Vs the exact type of villain last night online at 5/10c. Basically I would place blocker pre flop raises with very speculative hands. It would allow the whale to control the action with bluff catchers as weak as 2nd or 3rd pair and any top pair weak kicker etc. When I was fortunate enough to flop a big hand all I had to do was check to him once the pot swelled and allow him to value own himself. Isolation is key because you can extract maximum value from mediocre hands.

I don't know if this is the most optimal but when an opponent will stack for 100bb with air you want to do whatever you can to isolate heads up. 3 betting a wide range for value in position as weak as suited Kx. Depending on his willingness to stack off pre flop limp re raise could be very useful to collect dead money and isolate as a huge favorite.
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Old 01-29-2014, 04:24 AM   #8
dgiharris
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Re: Playing 100% VPiP??

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCYdonk View Post
About 200bb deep in position against whale playing VPiP of 100. Playing 2/5, he will lose at least 1000bb a day, sometimes 2000bb. He finds away to get stacks in ~50% of pots.

When I have position against him (like today), I've been playing 100% VPiP. I'm sure this is profitable, but I'm wondering if it is the best strategy. Other players seem unwilling to exploit and I've only been 3bet a handful of times in about 15 hours.

So, is there a better strategy?
I don't like the above strategy.

Playing 100% VPIP is spewy, that is leaking way way wayyyy too much money and putting yourself in way too many marginal situations not to mention you getting sucked in to multiway raised pots.

You can still take advantage of the whale by getting in hands with him with a 25% - 30% range. That is still a boatload of playable hands, SCs, S1Gs, all pockets, all broadways, Axs and Kxs.

Any adjustment beyond a 30% range imo is just wayyyy too wide and too spewy. Effectively that is nothing more than bingo poker and I just can't see how that would be profitable longterm.

Lastly, eff stack sizes are important. You'd both have to be at least 250bb deep in order to be trailing the whale with a 25% - 30% range trying to get it in with him.

This is/was one of my biggest leaks. We see a super drooler whale splashing around and we can't help but want to get a piece of the action. But if we aren't careful, we end up becoming just as big a drooler as the whale...
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Old 01-29-2014, 07:51 AM   #9
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Re: Playing 100% VPiP??

If this was heads up then playing even 50vpip should show a profit. Unfortunately llsnl is always full ring, so while you are playing a wide range trying to stack the whale, guess what, all it takes is one of the other 7 players who is playing a more reasonably tight range to enter the pot, and hes going to have the edge.

Because of this factor, when i encounter a mega whale playing 100vpip, my adjustment is to play ~20% of my range against him, in position, and always 3betting to isolate. Dont turn into a fish and call him with a wide range looking to flop gin, thats what everybody does, they turn into fishes trying to stack the whale. Instead, start value 3betting and isolating him pre with hands like A9+ KT+,77+, etc
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:52 AM   #10
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Re: Playing 100% VPiP??

I play with a guy like this and I want to be on his right, not left, most of the time even if the table is somewhat passive when it comes to 3-bets. I want the dead money in there and I want to 3-bet more often and with good strong holdings, thus I am playing less pots, not more and they are bloated pots with the limpers trying to see Flops with him.

I agree if you are going to 'join the party' with him, then being on his left is probably better post-Flop so you don't get blown off your 1-pair hands when he raises you with his wide range of holdings ... and aspirations for whatever he thinks he is drawing to after the Flop.

Hard to believe that you see minimal 3-bets but it does make some sense that since people are calling with a wider range of hands than normal then they are playing less hands they can 3-bet with. GL
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:03 AM   #11
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Re: Playing 100% VPiP??

i would play ~30% in position

3bet like 15%
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Old 01-29-2014, 01:48 PM   #12
beauvanlaanen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dufusbrain View Post
Sit to his RIGHT. That way you can see what everyone else does first, then raise on your value+ hands. If it goes limp, limp, whale raise 8x, call, call, call, even seen it recommended that you should jam with QJs+.
lol, no. just no.
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Old 01-29-2014, 01:49 PM   #13
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I don't think playing every hand V plays is optimal? You are going to miss a lot of flops the put yourself in a crappy position to call with Ax high and hands that V can easily have beat if he plays every pot. I think playing solid hands strong is the way to play. AJo+ 88 + I would be raising big pre to get V to come along and hopefully it's heads up otf.
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Old 01-29-2014, 02:26 PM   #14
daniel9861
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Re: Playing 100% VPiP??

I think in good position, like if we're on BTN and V is in CO, we can play around 45%, and in bad position, like we're UTG and V is in BB, it shouldn't be much wider than normal so like 10-12%. But it really just depends a lot on how tight the players are who have position on us.
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Old 01-29-2014, 05:17 PM   #15
dgiharris
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Re: Playing 100% VPiP??

Quote:
Originally Posted by beauvanlaanen View Post
I don't think playing every hand V plays is optimal? You are going to miss a lot of flops the put yourself in a crappy position to call with Ax high and hands that V can easily have beat if he plays every pot. I think playing solid hands strong is the way to play. AJo+ 88 + I would be raising big pre to get V to come along and hopefully it's heads up otf.
This is just way too nitty vs the player as described.

If we are both deep enough, i.e. 150bb+ deep, we really should be widening our range to 15% OOP and if in position I'd widen my range to near 30% playing all SCs, S1Gs, broadways, Axs, Kxs, and pockets.

You don't need TPTK+ to extract nice juicy value out of a 100% VPIP whale-fish that is just there to play and have a good time.

or put another way, you are leaving a lot of $$$ on the table by not widening your range. Now, if we were 100bb deep or less, I could get behind tightening your range some, but if we are both 150bb+ deep, then you should be loosening up and of course isolating if/when possible by raising...

EDIT: My initial post upthread I said 250bb deep, I meant 150bb+ deep
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