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PF play in a loose underground game? PF play in a loose underground game?

12-18-2017 , 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
As games become more difficult (especially with regards to competency of postflop play), I've totally reversed my opinion on shortstacking, and now employ it in most games I play.

It's totally dependent on how you feel your postflop skillz stack up against your opponents (noting that you must be extremely honest/accurate with your evaluation, and "lol, LLSNL opponent, amirite?" doesn't cut it anymore).

G180degreeturnG
On the other side of that equation, if I have a deeper stack, I prefer playing against bad short-stacked opponents and isolating them. They will usually sit there bleeding their stack slowly, getting more and more desperate to shove any paired ace on the flop or (Q/K with decent kicker) AJ/99+ preflop.

That makes it easy to identify when to bet against them. Probably making at least 20% of my money by putting the really short stacks out of their misery when they finally get desperate enough to shove (if you have the better hand) their 30-40bb.

The best part is, they can't stack you in the worst case scenario.
PF play in a loose underground game? Quote
12-18-2017 , 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
So, you are not confident in your post-flop play? That's very honest of you, and I totally respect it.

I must play in different games, because most of my opponents are not great post (or in general), and I know to stay away from the ones who are. For me, it's knowing my opponents and playing appropriately, but when I stack someone (get my stack in), I want it to mean something (The majority of players in the NYC games I attend are not to be feared.)

Question: Do you just quit when you double/triple up?
No, I think most other players play their deepstack as about as competently (or whatever word you want to use) as I do, and if anything some opponents are much more capable of putting me in a horrible spot than I am of them.

When I get deeperstacked I typically attempt to move to a shorterstacked / easier ABC table.

GcluelessshortstackingnoobG
PF play in a loose underground game? Quote
12-18-2017 , 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by setintostraight
I prefer playing against bad short-stacked opponents and isolating them. They will usually sit there bleeding their stack slowly, getting more and more desperate to shove any paired ace on the flop or (Q/K with decent kicker) AJ/99+ preflop.
As often as deepstack is described as the holy grail of poker (and perhaps it is for really good players), for the rest of us mortals I think it's mostly a myth. The table you describe above regarding fish constantly going broke with their shorter stacks is the bread and butter table, imo. Most fish don't play nearly as badly/recklessly with big stacks (although admittedly they can still lose it back a bit at a time, but rarely all in one go).

GcluelessdeepstacknoobG
PF play in a loose underground game? Quote
12-18-2017 , 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
As often as deepstack is described as the holy grail of poker (and perhaps it is for really good players), for the rest of us mortals I think it's mostly a myth. The table you describe above regarding fish constantly going broke with their shorter stacks is the bread and butter table, imo. Most fish don't play nearly as badly/recklessly with big stacks (although admittedly they can still lose it back a bit at a time, but rarely all in one go).

GcluelessdeepstacknoobG
I used to have an aversion to short stacked tables, because "there's not enough money at the table", however in retrospect this is clearly wrong because it's a conclusion made with incomplete information. People re-buy very frequently and short stacks are much more likely to do so (I've seen 4-5 rebuys within 2 hours from a person before, for $100-200). There may be way more action and money in play over time at a short stacked table than a deep stacked. We should be optimizing for "money in pots/hour" not "total possible amount of money in 1 pot", because the latter measure may be completely irrelevant.

The deeper stacked table will usually be full of regs who built their stack up or fish who stacked someone and are now in lockdown mode, playing 1 hand an hour. Playing at a tight passive table with deep stacks is dangerous territory and I usually won't see stacks go in without nuts over nuts (flush vs boat).

(this is based just on 1 casino, so YMMV, I'm not claiming this is the case everywhere, if you can find deep stacked games with lots of action, good for you)
PF play in a loose underground game? Quote
12-18-2017 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by setintostraight
I used to have an aversion to short stacked tables, because "there's not enough money at the table", however in retrospect this is clearly wrong because it's a conclusion made with incomplete information. People re-buy very frequently and short stacks are much more likely to do so (I've seen 4-5 rebuys within 2 hours from a person before, for $100-200). There may be way more action and money in play over time at a short stacked table than a deep stacked. We should be optimizing for "money in pots/hour" not "total possible amount of money in 1 pot", because the latter measure may be completely irrelevant.

The deeper stacked table will usually be full of regs who built their stack up or fish who stacked someone and are now in lockdown mode, playing 1 hand an hour. Playing at a tight passive table with deep stacks is dangerous territory and I usually won't see stacks go in without nuts over nuts (flush vs boat).

(this is based just on 1 casino, so YMMV, I'm not claiming this is the case everywhere, if you can find deep stacked games with lots of action, good for you)
This is very similar to how action plays in my room as well.

GcluelessNLnoobG
PF play in a loose underground game? Quote

      
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