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Pair plus open-ender vs. overbet Pair plus open-ender vs. overbet

05-14-2014 , 10:03 PM
3-5. The fish all busted out so the table is now all good regulars. Pots are often raised light but rarely 3-bet.
H: 30 white M, Aggressive in position, up one BI. ($1100)
V: 55 white M, quiet, smart, tight and occasionally pounces big, up one BI. ($950)

UTG raises to 15. Two callers. H has 77 in HIJ, calls. CUT and BTN (V) call, 5 see flop.

Flop (70): T98r

Checked to H. H checks, hoping for free turn card. Checked to V. V overbets 100. Folded to H. H tanks and agonizes. Finally calls. HIJ folds.

My first instinct is to fold. I don't have odds to draw to a straight. I might be drawing dead against a big straight. But I think his overbet range is mostly TPGK, and maybe 2p, sets, and overpairs intending to price out straight draws. I start feeling like "a pair plus an open-ender" is too good to fold, even though I'm on the idiot end. I don't feel I can re-raise, we're way too deep and I'm not comfortable playing for my entire stack on this draw. So at the last second I just decide to call and hope to improve on the turn.

Turn (270): 9

H checks. V bets 100. H calls.

I snapped-called, figuring now I'm actually getting correct implied odds to call to an open-ender, since he made it so cheap relative to the pot. Only later did I realize that a paired board means I could be drawing dead.

River (470): T

H checks. V bets 125. H folds.

Now my 7's are completely counterfeit and I play the board. I immediately folded with my hand not improving. I later realized that this double-paired board might be incredibly scary for V, and his bet is pretty small. Perhaps I should have check-raised big or all-in, or just lead out on the river. Or maybe cutting my losses was correct after all my terrible chasing.

I'm pretty upset with myself about how I played this hand. I think some mistakes were overvaluing pair+open-ender when the pair was just in my hand, and I had the bottom-end of an open-ender with poor implied odds if I hit, playing so passively with a decent hand, calling off a huge overbet, continuing to chase with a terrible turn card, and not seeing bluffing opportunity on the river.

I was pretty tilted when I played this hand. I would appreciate feedback on all streets. Thanks!
Pair plus open-ender vs. overbet Quote
05-14-2014 , 10:57 PM
You see, draws in NL are almost never worth a call because the price will never be right unless we play against dorks. Your is good for nothing on the flop. What you got is an under-pair with a draw to the low end. That's not the way to make money. Even a top-pair +OE would not be correct to call for that price. You should not invest much on potential hands but instead should focus on made flopped hands that have your opponent crushed at the time you make the flop bet. Or else get out before paying any more money to see the next card. You don't want to see the next card if you got a weak hand on the flop. Like in your case on the flop: your hand (under-pair) by itself is no good, even if by some miracle is still good it can be easy counterfeited, and even if that's not the case you can hit the straight card and still lose even more.

If you make the best hand at the last card, you would had to have the worst hand until that last card. You would have to outdraw the other opponents to take the pot, and the player who stays with the worse hand hopping for the next miracle out card is going to lose his money in NL. So, no matter how you slice it, the best play would be to fold on the flop.

Of course all this is valid if you're looking to make some money. Else, you can play a fun game and see lots of flops and draws to every combo.

Last edited by Octavian; 05-14-2014 at 11:09 PM.
Pair plus open-ender vs. overbet Quote
05-14-2014 , 11:08 PM
As played if you call flop there you should be check raising the turn or folding not calling.
Pair plus open-ender vs. overbet Quote

      
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