This hand takes place at 1/3 nl. I have 330$ and am the effective stack besides the short stack.

early position limps and I have 67 in middle position I raise to 15$. (V1) flats in cutoff and a shortstack of 50$ flats on the button. The limper calls

V1 is a reg who I have played with before. He is a little sticky and just generally plays too many hands preflop, e.g. he showed down 108o that he flatted to a raise I made in a previous orbit.

The shortstack is loose passive rec player I expect to play fit or fold postflop. Limper is also loose passive rec

Flop comes 578 (60)
Limper checks to me: Hero?

Depending on the table dynamics and depth, I limp this hand.

As played, I c-bet. This is a great fop for you. Go ~$40.

The more I play the more I recognize raising SCs (especially in EP and MP) are a leak at 1/2 and 1/3. I know everyone wants to seem tricky and win a big pot with this type of hand but you are better off limping IMO.

All that to say I agree with Java and you need to bet here. Gotta build value for yourself especially if you think other players only put you in broadway cards and PPs.

I dislike preflop because the result (multiway, OOP to multiple players) is completely standard. We also start handcuffing ourselves to the pot on any"good" hand we make due to the small SPR, and yet most "good" hands we make with this hand shrivel up considerably if anyone with half a brain decides to play for non-trivial stacks postflop. At passive payoffy tables I think an overlimp isn't horrendous, but I mostly fold when not in LP.

I'm either/or on the flop. OOP I might just check/call this. A bet isn't horrible since we could be best and are protecting, we could get called by worse, and we should have ok equity. Another option if we think a bet behind is weakish is check/raising with our equity (perhaps shoving) and somewhat turns our hand into a little bit of a bluff against hands that also have decent equity (although with our showdown equity I don't know if we need to do that as much).

GcluelessNLnoobG

ap, I cb for sure

I probably overlimp pre. If I do decide to raise, I probably go to $18 to try to achieve some sort of isolation. AP cbet 35.

Iso raising pre here with 7 high w/ $50 SS otb is a pretty big leak

Ap both are ok but given they are passive prob just betting. Against aggro players or decent players this is supposed to be a check

As long as I’m raising pre w a range that reaches down to 76s then I am ok betting this flop. The btn is irrelevant pre bc who cares, I’m not adjusting my normal strat bc he’s broke. Post his presence only serves to protect the pot and puts V1 in a vice when we bet flop. Besides, plenty of equity to withstand a raise and take the right line if that happens - protection to an extent as well along with fading a rio card.

I agree this would be a problem if the player on the button was a good aggressive shortstacker. However, this hand is a great example. He flat called an open for 1/3 of his stack and then folded on the flop. He's not 3 betting jamming a bunch to leverage his short stack so I don't think it's an issue. He's just a classic fit or fold fish who doesn't pay attention to stack sizes and SPR as evidenced by calling a large portion of his stack to fold the flop

Anyways onto the hand I decided to check. Would love to hear feedback from you all. My reasons for checking are:

1. We are 4 ways so a bet is a lot less likely to get through.

2. This board is generally pretty bad for my opening range even in middle position and much favors my opponents range. My opponents can have straights which I cannot and my range consists of a lot of broadway cards that are complete whiffs on this board. I plan on checking a lot on this board.

3. As a follow up to the previous point we aren't really getting called by worse here if we bet. Because its rainbow a lot of the draws that would call will be pair + straight draw like our hand and we are only beating 56

4. I have good relative position on the cutoff (V1) who I expect to be the widest player here so I can check and evaluate the action. If it checks through we take our equity and we can pick up the straight or two pair on the turn, as well as delayed c betting a safe turn card.

As played V1 bets 30$ and the button and limper fold hero is closing the action and ???

Call unless you wanna just GII now cuz yolo.

I would have led flop $40.

I would bet the flop, but as played Im jamming all in now. I dont like calling OOP in this spot. You will be check/folding the turn too often. HE will be the one folding too often to a crai.

The open is a little loose from MP, CO and BUT I like it more, but it's not terrible and I don't really like limping unless we're to the right of a LAGgy maniac. In order to open hands like this profitably, however, you need to c-bet flops like this. To open and check is pissing money away. As played, call. I don't really like shoving because I'd rather keep ranges wide. I think we have a lot of bluff equity on a lot of turns and we have 10 outs twice to improve if we're behind.

I would have led the flop, but now I can go either way. I probably raise and make him think about continuing with his pair of 8s or straight draw.

Flatting is fine as the low-variance play, but I don't raise 67 to hit this flop and check/call down. I mean, why raise pre if that's the plan?

I think if stacks were smaller I'd be more on board with Mike's check/jam as the risk vs reward would be better.

However, with these slightly bigger stacks relative to the pot, plus the fact we have a showdownable hand, I might lean to just check/calling at this point. One of the benefits of raising preflop is that our OESD might have more IO than normal (or may induce bluffs if we decide to slowplay it). It's also possible he checks back turn and we get to the river for free.

GcluelessNLnoobG

It works better at this exact stack depth because you have a lot more fold equity. Too shallow and hes never folding a pretty decent hand like TT or even A8. Too deep and its too much risk for the reward.

CRAI seems a little big? It's a 2x pot overbet I'm never making this size with a value hand it just seems like its screaming for a fold. Probably works against unthinking opponents but I think its pretty exploitable?

I opted to raise to 100$ and he called pretty quickly.

Turn is the A bringing a backdoor flush draw and we are first to act. There is 260 the pot and about 215 behind

^^ shove once you get here this way and A comes ott

He ‘s hardly ever nutted with the snap call

Id love to hear how check raising all in with a pair and draw is exploitable. His only options are call or fold and neither are great for him unless he has a set or 86. He might fold 86 if he doesnt feel like gambling because hes never going to think hes already ahead.

Hes going to fold the best hand a good amount of the time and when he calls we arent very far behind his range.

If we never do this with two pair+ And it’s obviously a draw he can call down lighter.

One reason I posted this hand is I realized I would probably not have a balanced check raising range here. I think I’m betting all my top pair plus here so my check raising is like always draws. However if I did decide to check raise two pair plus I would definitely go for a smaller sizing and not CRAI so I don’t like doing that when I have the draw

I feel like my checking range in general is just weak and maybe that’s fine in multi-way pots like this. Most people are advocating for just a flop bet. I assume betting tp+ here as well. So when we check this board we are really capped and gonna have a hard time finding any hands to call a triple barrel with. But is this all fine because it’s llsnl and our opponents don’t bluff enough?

Those 2 statements are a problem. You probably need to mix up your lines more. I would check this flop occasionally with a big overpair and I may or may not check raise after I see the action and who it comes from. If youre always betting your overpairs or TP, then of course a check raise is going to look weird. But even if it looks weird, he still cant do much about it if you crai. He's in a bad spot. I doubt he will have you seen you make a play like this often enough to have any idea what you have.

Sorry what I meant to say was I wouldn't CRAI with a set or an overpair. I think I would sometimes decide to check these hands but if I did check raise I would go to 100 to set up a turn jam just like I did in this hand.

Basically I want to go back on the flop and do a range analysis its a MP open so say my range is 22+ 67s+ QTs+ KQo+ ATo+. what hands are we checking with vs betting and do we even need to have a check raise range on this flop
or just check call and bet