Villain 1: Goofy looking late 30's white male playing ATC and bluffing like a complete moron. Has reloaded several times since sitting down and recently has gotten lucky and chipped up.

Villain 2: Mid 30's typical white guy, T shirt and jeans, friendly demeanor, rec player.

Hero: has only played one hand to this point so the table doesn't have much of a read on me. Previous hand, I had A9 in bb, six limpers, I check, flop is 10 9 3 I check-call, three to the turn another 9, I lead, one call (villain 1)- river is a brick, I ship, V1 calls K3. Yes he is THAT stupid.

Hand in question:

V1 ($350): opens to $8 from MP (which he has done pretty much every single hand. Folds around.

Hero ($300): flats with JT on button.

V2: ($200): flats from BB.

Flop A46

V2 checks. V1 leads $12. Hero flats. V2 flats.

Turn 8

V2 checks. V1 leads $35. Hero flats. V2 flats.

River 10

V2 checks. V1 leads $100.

Ok so now what?

Please give thoughts on each street played? Should I have 3 bet from the button? Raise the flop? Turn? What to do on the river now?

I can see raising the turn because V1 is awful and is likely to call you with worse, which makes getting it all in on the river easier. But since he went and led the river, it is still easy to get it in.

If someone has Kxcc or Qxcc, it's a cooler. But you called pre hoping that exactly this would happen; don't be afraid to pull the trigger now that you got what you wanted.

P.S. This is not a PAHWM. And that is a good thing.

All in. If you say he's that bad he's going to call now he's pot committed .

Just curious...why is this not a PAHWM? I'm guessing that I have the definition confused...

I considered that...V1 is not really who I'm worried about though...I'm more concerned with the passive fish that might have the Queen high flush. Would he raise turn?

typically if you want to do a PAHWM, you should post the reads and background and all action up to the first decision point whether that is pre flop or flop, etc.

that way the discussion gets going better and you update with the next action the following day.

shipping the river is the only line imo

v2 has less than a raise left so the action cannot be reopened unless you do it. if v2 had 350 and v1 had 200 i'd consider flatting

Thanks...I was unaware of the PAHWM specifics.

PAHWM threads are pre-approved by a mod and stickied in which the OP posts one street at a time and gets feedback on each specific street before revealing the next action.

This hand is fine for posting, it just shouldn't be labelled a PAHWM.

As for your concern about V2, if he is passive, he may not raise the turn (it's not the nuts/I'm trapping/etc). But if you are going to worry about getting overflushed when you make your flush, then you should have folded pre-flop.

If you are going to play suited connectors, you:
(a) have to play them for stacks - the implied odds you need to play them profitably are at least 15:1 so when you hit, you need to stack someone
(b) have to remember that flush over flush is generally unlikely, so like a set, sometimes you get coolered but most of the time you get fat value when you play them aggressively

Lastly, don't rule out V1 or V2 having a lower flush. Not stacking them when they have a lower flush is massive lost value.

Stack sizes mean that shipping river is the only option. This is a bit of an ugly situation with V2 in, and I would have raised turn in part to see if V2 had a flush draw also. If V1 bets, you raise and V2 ships turn, you can get away from your hand if you believe him. It would be a hard fold but if he is tighter leaning he probably doesn't ship a smaller flush then you have. At this point it is too late, you can't fold to V1's bet and if you call you have to call if V2 ships, so you might as well move all in yourself.

This is excellent advice...thank you. Definitely opened my eyes to something I had not realized before.

I also just flat preflop. Against spewy bluffy morons my typical goal is to simply try to get into a hand with them for cheap, wait until I hit, and then get the money in when I have them crushed. I'm not too concerned about whether this goes HU vs 3way.

I also just flat the flop. Against players who have a fold button / are aware of our image / etc. perhaps we could raise here and have some FE / free card options on the turn. But this guy is an idiot. Let's just wait until we hit our hand and then we can start shoveling in chips.

I think I'm trying to stack off on the turn. So I raise the turn. Anything like a typical 3x raise will enable us to play for stacks by the river. Plus we want to get some money in now before a 4th club kills the action. So I make it $105+ (and would have no problem going way larger against an idiot, even $150 isn't unreasonable, imo).

Next time put pot size on each street; it's hard to figure out by ourselves.

As played, I now shove all in. Good thing no cards came to kill our action/hand, plus Villain bet river for us (so we don't have to way overbet shove ourselves); we got lucky. The chance of Villain paying off our raise > other guy overcalling, plus other guy might stack off here anyways.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I think there are two key points to how you end this hand:

#1: You have the 3rd nuts at a weak table. You are likely good here, so you should probably play it like the nuts and take it as a cooler if you get beat.

More importantly:

#2: You have just described this V as a complete donk. While he very well could show up here with Kc5c or something equivalent, it's far more likely he has a 2 pair hand or trips and is completely willing to pay you off. He could also have absolutely nothing.

My only real concern is V2. V2's line looks to me as either the nuts or something like a lone K/Qc with a 1 pair hand that got roped into sticking around.

With that said, I get it in against this V and try to stack him. V2 is a concern, but the odds of him having the nuts here is low enough that you can accept the risk.

Keep in mind V2 has <$50 left if he calls the $100 so it's not like we're folding to his shove if we call. Might as well shove ourselves and try to get V1 to pay us off with his entire range, 95% of which we beat.

I'm sliding a stack in ott, and I'm jamming river while high fiving the dealer at the same time.

That made me laugh out loud...

I too would ship the river. This is the hand we want, and we got it. If V2 has the K or Q with two clubs, eh so be it. V1 never has clubs here and V2 probably has some weird Ax combo like A7. But yes, I'd also raise OTT to something like $90-100. We don't want any other hands catching up (that V2 might have) and we want to be sure to get V1's money into the pot.

RESULTS:

I actually just called the river bet and so did V2. V1 tables A-10 and V2 has 9c5c for a smaller flush.

Yes I know I butchered this hand and missed out on a good bit of value, I honestly do not know what the hell I was thinking here. I agree with most of you that the turn was an easy raise and as played I should have jammed river. But that's why I posted the hand to see how it SHOULD have been played. Thanks for all the feedback, I definitely won't make this mistake again.