Man, this hand is bizarre. I feel like you're ~probably behind at this point against a reasonable player but SB is a fish and could be overvaluing AJ, KJ, QJ, T9, or J9. That combined with the fact that he's laying you a decent price to possibly boat up in position and I would just call the $100 here. I think its ok to tread lightly in this spot.

That's because you don't understand the odds of hitting your hand and the math involved to make it a +EV play.

As played, his bet indicates that either he doesn't know what he's doing or has a draw. If you call, the pot goes to 500 and you have 600 left. Unless you're planning to fold to a shove on the river on a blank, you might as well get everything in now. If he has a draw, you charged him. If he beats you, it was all going in anyway.

Feels valuey to me. Nevertheless, in game, I call quickly. Top two and a brick turn.

Sent from my SM-N960U using 2+2 Forums

But there are more ways to make money than just by hitting your 2 pair

This hand has as many twists as Game of Thrones. I hope there's a better ending.

Pretty straightforward call I think on this turn. If we boat up we get all the monies. We're probably at least even money against SB in side pot.

How do you know I even need to hit my hand? My J high could be the best hand already. There could be other lower Jx in there. There could be small pps so i only need to hit 1 pair to win. No way I need some crazy amount of odds to limp.

Calling a raise with it is a different story.

Next action, I guess.

Gotta raise against short ep, since we think sb is a spot we can size up a little so 160 - 200.

Update: as action developed would flat the additional bets preflop since sb will probably telegraph monsters

I lean towards raising turn given the sizing though would be slightly concerned about villain taking this line with a non nut straight.

FYP.

Unless you're at a very weak table, you're not going to get pot odds to call a flop bet. Your deficit that you have to overcome gets deeper. Sklansky wrote about it in this month's 2+2 Magazine. I went through the math years ago on this situation and the EV is pretty close to neutral overall on having a draw after calling pf with a connector. That doesn't mean you don't make the call. It just means that you're recovering the equity loss you had on the flop. It isn't a great money maker.

Pre is the crux of the hand. The hand shows the perils of overlimping... when you do flop near the top of your range you can still be crushed 5 ways.

What is the prime directive of poker? Play as many big pots with fish in position as possible. Simple!

There is $40 of dead money in the pot no one has shown much interest in by limping (Button has a random as far as we know). We have a BIG FISH that limped. Big fish limp with many more hands than the ones that dominate us (sm pp's, sc's , etc). You want to play as many hands with him in position as you can and hopefully you will either isolate him or scoop the dead money.

If you get caller(s) utilize position as best as you can.

No argument at all. I should've folded preflop. But lets play the hand the best way possible now that we are here. Do we want to raise the flop or raise the turn now in this spot? Or do we allow him to bet with either a dominated hand or a draw?

If we call the flop and turn, we can jam any non horrible river card and still get max value from his dominated but made hands. We may still also get max value if he jam a missed draw on the river.

If we call the flop and turn we get away cheaper when he has a draw that hits, but we make less money when he has those draws but wouldve called raises.

Its a dilemma I find myself in now and then and still have never decided which is best. I think the more fishy the guy is, the more likely he is to call big raises with draws or pair and draws and we should try to get all in as soon as possible in the hand but I seem to never do that.

Now that we are here, I flat the $100.

Brick turn, I like calling the 100. I assume you did the same given the dynamics of this hand.

What is River/Action?

Hero calls the $100.

Main pot ($345). Side pot ($200)

Board is JcTh9d5c.......river 8s

SB looks confident and quickly bets $200.

Gross. Not sure you beat anything now. Time to let it go.

I folded because I felt all along like he had a pair + draw type hand. He had AcQc.

I feel like raising the flop....or calling the flop and jamming the turn is the best play if thats what I put him on. With this exact hand, I was basically 2:1 favorite on both the flop and the turn after he picked up the flush draw on the turn.

I saved money this time because this particular player was never folding to a raise anywhere, but I still think I misplayed it.