J3o, utg raise from tight younger dude who I 3! w/T2hh and got to dump something like AJs earlier, ran his mouth a bit, standard live nonsense. MP calls rest fold to Hero and blinds fold we're three ways Hero on BU.

I have a bad image even for myself, which is usually slag. Opening maybe 85% of hands, cbetting most of those.

ES 1400 @ 1/3

Flop (30) AQ3 spade draw

V leads 75, MP fold and Hero flats

Turn (180) Ts Hero has bdfd and inside st with his 3s

V leads 100 Hero calls in tempo

River (380) 8d

V leads 300

Am I an idiot for thinking about calling?

I don't understand any of this. You called an utg raise from a tight player with J3o. The turn puts a three flush on the board? You can to call a triple barrel with fifth pair and three broadways on the board?

I'm not sure what the PF action is - did you 3! an UTG raise from a tight player with J3o? Or did you call an open from a tight UTG player with J3o? Or something else?

I'm assuming since there is $30 in the pot on the flop that you flatted the open?

No idea whats going on but all of it seems horrible.

Fold pre, fold flop, fold turn, fold river.

You can't win in poker opening 85% of hands unless you re a UB superuser.

I get the feeling sclesi is trolling 2+2. He created another thread on the front page today where he said he is opening 80% of hands UTG.

Mods should be aware of this.

You'd have a better shot at beating blackjack

We're over 400bb deep, I don't think this is a fold pre situation ever, esp closing the action with two tight players telegraphing folds in the blinds.

As for flop float, not a terribly big deal either.

What I'm really wondering about, I suppose, is whether raising the turn is better than calling down, and whether river sizing skews V's range to air and like AA only. With three to a flush and numerous straights, V has to be continuing with only the one pair hands that block the fd, otherwise we'd expect a check to get to SD cheaply.

ducy why this hand is worth discussion?

To answer your original question in OP.

Yes.

You're terribly wrong.

It's not.

Is it not also possible at this point that V has realized he's playing against a moron and is value betting anything that hit the board?

Results perhaps get this back on track:

Serious question. Would you have made a thread if he had rolled over Q5?

Hero still played the hand worse than villain

Lol wtf is this

This doesn't make the rest of the hand any better. When someone's gunning for you, find a decent spot.

Nothing is going to get this thread on track.

This forum is full of Tag, and super passive players (mix).

Maniacs post once or twice and leave. Almost no Slags in forum.

Being one of the few true Lag's that posts.

Your whole hand is awful. Game plan of raising %80 is awful.

Coming from a guy who plays 80% vpip, every Monday night.

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Exactly this. I've been playing pretty LAG since starting over at $1/2. LAG is a viable strategy, but battling with dog **** against someone showing aggression at $1/3 is a terrible idea.

Thanks - yes. I would have been equally interested in feedback. What V shows up with is largely irrelevant.

Cool.
So villain has 65s some of the time as bluff here.
What is villains value range here?
Lets say it's just AQ, 33 and 65cc.
Can you still call profitably?

What if it is all 65s?
What if it is the above range + all pair + flush draw combos on the flop?
What it is the above range + plus straight draws + flush draws + 65s?

Calling with the best hand does not mean that it is the correct call vs a villains range.
Folding the best hand does not mean that it was an incorrect fold vs the villains range.

Bonus Homework:
If you open for 10bb, and I shove my 100bb stack in with AA 100%, AKs 10% of the time, and 22 X% of the time, and NEVER anything else, how often do I need to be shoving 22 for you to profitably call with TT?
So if I'm shoving 22 less than the break even % of times, should you be mad any time that I roll 22 or should you be happy that you are exploiting me by folding too often?

So 80% vpip is more limp call or call ip, and you're opening a top 15 or 20% range pre? Serious question. I slag it up at llsnl for the same reasons you do. Tons of 4-5 way calls for 8-10x open, flop spr is like 2:1, I lead psb and all fold, rinse/repeat.

Level 1 players think that this is exploitable and compensate by opening a gillion hands in EP rather than tighten up, apparently.

Ty this is great info. Fwiw I ran a similar range in ppt, top 30% hands and removed some total whiffs like suited combos in red, still needed almost 8:1 to call. Makes me think V thinks my range is RND, esp after fd completes ott.

In the moment, I couldn't come up with a hand I beat, and like you said, Vs range has to be unreasonably weighted toward air to make this spot close at all.

No I play %80 vpip....because it's fun.

By doing so I am giving away massive amount EV. But also game plays 400BB on average. So I am able to compensate for it a bit.

Your plan of creating SPR of 2, and getting it in with any piece. Is going to get you destroyed in 9 player game.

Other 8 players are just going to hest hand you all night. Although they will all make incorrect adjustments to you. You will lose. (Or win huge for awhile).

But in the end. Noone with 80% vpip is g oing to beat 1/2 100BB game. Wether the have passive 80% vpip. Or maniac 80% vpip.

Not only that. It will kill the games. Nobody likes to sit around and wait for premiums. To stack off with you.

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I like when people self proclaim lag and confuse it with mindless button clicking.

This is actually a comment I get all the time (in addition to speculation about my $$, which runs the gamut from trust fundee to drug dealer). That I'm killing the game, or as one of these opponents put it, "besmirching its integrity."

Why wouldn't we want a target on our back? Ie dude tells me he cant wait to bust me yesterday. I'm on BU, 4 limps to me, I open to 15 T8o, folds to V who limped utg and now min raises to 30 with 470 behind. All fold I call. Flop T82r, V leads 60, I raise 125, V calls. Turn blank, V checks I ship V snaps with AA.

Now I don't expect that guy to fold that hand in that spot vs anyone; but I do expect to be snapped off on scarier coordinated boards, like T98 two tone and a 6 ott.