Uhh what?

Flop

Turn

Using "how hard it is to make a hand" is a pretty lame excuse to intentionally attempt to play for decent 150bb stacks against multiple opponents having gotten in just lol 4% of them preflop, imo.

I'm not saying there aren't any arguments for continuing on the flop or for betting the turn; there are. But there are also reasons to give up on the flop and check behind on the turn. I've seen a surprising amount of HHs here lately where people seem more than willing to hurp durp in significant stacks postflop with one pear having gotten in lol small percentages preflop. As always, there's two ways to read things (and context helps), but I'm reading way more "fish overvalueing hand" than "expert extracting maximum value" in most cases.

GcluelessNLnoobG

This is mostly in relation to you thinking the turn is an absolute must bet. At that decision point we don't have the extra knowledge of knowing the river is also checking thru. It's being a bit results oriented, imo. And much of the same thinking can also be applied to the flop decision too.

GimoG

Dude what are you talking about. Do you understand how PAHWM's work?

No matter what strategy you choose you have to capitalize on bad play. These guys tell you exactly what they have when they have it. Ridiculously unbalanced face up ranges with sizings that tell the tale so often. It’s a skill game, and understanding how hard hand-making is cannot just be put aside, it’s a huge part of the equation especially when paired w lines, likely ranges, sizings, tendencies, and all the rest of the information in play that’s out there waiting to be monetized to one degree or another. You know first hand how hard hand-making is, not set no bet is a money making scheme but it still doesn’t make more when combined w other schemes like how to best showdown KK in a protected pot. When equities swing as hard as they often do last flops, how can you even realistically rely on SPR/commitment/etc to determine your lines? Anyways.

We could probably get by with less attacks, insults, and "I told you so" posts in this forum.

Truth.

This is your quote. And all I'm saying is that's really easy to say knowing how the river action goes plus knowing the results.

GimoG

Don't a bunch of opponents tricky check their boats here on the turn? Don't a bunch of opponents MUBSy check their straights multiway on paired boards on the turn? It's all very possible, and I might even go so far as "standard" for a lot of villains. A turn bet in these situations gets us in very lame-o river spots with just 60% PSB back. And yes, in this particular case it turns out all our villains had mediocre hands, and we likely missed some value / failed to protect our equity, in *this* case. But overall, against everything we were possibly up against, we gave ourselves a chance to evaluate the river card and action while not setting up a completely stupid spot, and took a decent average line against the average of what we were up against.

Even though there were lots of different decision points for OP along the way, and many of them could have been played differently, I hardly think anything he did in the hand could be classified as horrible.

GimoG