Hi all,

1/3. Hero is raising a pretty standard TAG range, about once every other orbit or so. V is MABG with cap and headphones. Once saw him bet river in limped pot with Q-high (he actually got called by worse). Another hand with him, I raised AJo in CO, he called in BB, I checked A-high flop. He bet turn and river (about 1/2 pot each time) and I called down and he said good call and mucked. Also, he has a sizing tell: he uses $1 chips when bluffing. Hero covers, V playing $350.

Hero raises JcJh UTG to $10 (this is my standard open first in), three Vs including aforementioned V in CO call. ($40).

Edit: other two Vs are loose pre fit or fold types.

Flop: Qc-7c-4s. Hero?

Oops, just saw you had three callers. Would help to know how the two in between play?

I don't mind a c-bet, but probably check/evaluate vs. three players unless I know how they play.

Check and see what happens. Depending on who bets, how much and any tells I might call or fold to a single bet on the flop but if there are multiple people interested it's usually best to get out now.

Against 3 opponents occasionally leading flop is OK if you know they are loose preflop but will mostly give up post if they don't have 7X+ or a club draw.

I’d bet here. You only have one overcard and you just start playing guessing games when you check.

I've been considering having very small opens like this when deeper (and although we're not deep we're not short either); even though this sizing has 0 FE and we'll always be going very multiway to the flop, it's kinda almost like a juicer to make stacks easier to play for when we hit our set (which in very multiway pots is almost what we're mostly doing, imo). The drawback is that we can build big pots OOP to tricky players who are capable of putting us in gross spots (so with this guy in LP I'm not as fond of that), plus we open ourselves up to kinda gross spots if 3bet (our plan?), so I probably go with my normal open limp / evaluate. But likely a bunch of options.

I probably lean to a cbet although with this guy in CO I'm not in love with that either. A cbet does protect our hand against world overs when best and can get called by worse (draws); it's also really cool with ending the hand now. But could also just check and see what happens as we're not really looking to build a pot either.

GbutImostlyhateplayinginbigbloatedpotsOOPwithhands thatwilloftenbeveryweakG

I dont like a cbet into 3 players. Check and if somebody bets decide your action based on who bets and how much. If a non club undercard comes ott i definitely bet.

Definitley bigger pre from UTG, 4x-5x is good. You’re getting a million callers here open to $10 from utg and youre not getting enough value.

Pre is meh, probably starting off with a check and go from there

Don't like the $10 open w/JJ at all this deep. Would anticipate a ton of calls, would almost always be OOP. If I remember correctly with JJ we get an overcard on flop ~57% of time.

Sorry, don't like cbet 4handed w/an overcard. I have a rule (almost) never cbet 4handed or more if overcard hits/has saved me a shytload of $.....

I like cbetting king high flops in general and checking Q high

Pre is good. Generally get exact same amount of callers regardless if you open 4-5-6x (I realize you did 3x).

Flop we are getting overcard 50% of time. Not a great flop for us. We got 4-1 on our open raise. We don't need to win very often postflop to make that raise profitable.

Given we are multi-way and oop. I prefer check/eval.
Bet flop puts us in tough spot a lot on turns.

$10 is just god awful sizing for any range and a terrible strategy. c-bet is burning money. just wait until the one villain bets with dollar chips(lol) and call down.

imagine thinking this is a smart thing to say or a valid reason to use a bad sizing

Please, enlightenment me. What hands do you fold for 4x raise that your calling 3x? Or calling 5x but folding 6x

If we get the exact same number of callings using 4-6x and we have a premium, isnt there only one optimal sizing and highest EV yielding size then?

Pre is way too small.

please pm this to meeko

What is optimal sizing then?

who knows. higher than 10. and for the sake of your argument, if 3x gets the same amount of callers as 4,5, and 6x then the answer is 6x.

While David Sklansky was talking about limit, it applies to NL as well. With JJ, you either want the flop to have 1 villain or more than 3. Otherwise, you are in poker hell.

If you check, you clearly don't have TP or better to your villains. They expect you to protect yourself against the FD. At best, you have the nut FD and want a free card. If you bet, it is likely someone will have something they can call with. You're going to have to put a lot of money in the hand to hope to win it.

I'd check in this OOP and just muck my cards if someone bets at it. There's a term for someone who can't fold a potential winning hand.

Calling station.

That said, this is a PAHWM and mistakes are part of the fun. Let's see what happens next.

Who knows? Maybe OP checked and it checks around, with the fun starting on the turn.

As far as overcards go, Q doesn’t scare me as much as A or K. I put out a bet of $25.

Only tricky V calls after doing this weird thing I’ve seen Vs do: he asked me how much I bet. (It’s right there in front of you! And uh, there’s a dealer here to help you with that too bud.) I feel like he was trying to get a read. I told him twenty-five.

Pot $90.

Turn: 9s. Hero checks, V bets $50.

Think it’s a fold on the turn. He called the c bet with two other villains, board is super wet, we can expect a bet OTR almost regardless of what comes in. Fold.

The other two villains folded (they were in the middle). Did he use any $1 chips?

I hate betting the flop then checking the turn in these spots. Vs this guy, I think you have to call the turn.

No. Two green.

I think it's a fold on the turn but it isn't a sure thing you are beat. Villain could be betting a worse single pair for value after you check.

When I get called by only the tricky villain I would usually go ahead and lead the turn. A tricky LAG is going to take your check as an invitation to bet, better to lead yourself and put some pressure on him. A lot of looser villains will call the flop bet with nearly anything but will give up on the turn if you continue.