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Old 03-19-2019, 01:49 PM   #1
jtm1208
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PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Villian: Mid 20's white guy. Good player, mixes up aggression well, capable of getting OOL, uses good bet sizing when going for value and bluffing. Math based player that is capable of making good folds if the math doesn't line up closely. Close to 400 hours playing with this villain Approximately. Definitely a winning player.

Hero: Almost exact same description as above haha. played a hand earlier where Hero Check called two streets with a possible FD against V and then bet the river when FD came in (I had PP with 1 heart). Villain called with me top set and won. (PS: terrible played hand by me that was)

OTTH: 1/2 NL with $5 BB ANTE, this hand has a UTG straddle to $5

V($2100): MP open to $20

Hero ($850, on the button): raises to $65 with QQ

folds to V who flats the $65

Flop ($145): QK2

V checks,
Hero ($785): C-bets $60
V: raise to $175
Hero: ??

Obviously this is a great spot. I 100% discount AA, KK, AK from his range, I think he would have 4 bet me preflop with those hands OOP AND if he didn't then I think he would go into check call mode to let me bluff off.

Hands I put him on include NFD, and some combination of JT9, possibly low diamonds like 67, JT not diamonds, random bluff

What is the best option to proceed here? Click back, shove, or flat? In the moment, I wasn't sure what to do against his raise at our stack sizes.

In general, I miss opportunities where clicking back might be the best play. But at this stack depth, clicking back felt awkward to me. raise to $350 with $400 back?

Shoving felt like it would get the portion of his range out of the hand that is less than 20%, and he only continues with hands that are around 30-35% in equity. I'm obviously fine getting it in as a 2:1 favorite, but I want to maximize against his whole potential range...wasn't sure if shoving accomplished that.

Calling keeps that range in there, but it also allows him to draw for a smaller price that he sets rather than a larger one I can set.

Fire away
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:59 PM   #2
StinkHolePatrol
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Call, real hard for him to have any value hand except AK or 22 here, we don't need to worry about a scare card peeling because he's looking for those to make his value hand.

Jam any turn that isn't an ace, 9 or diamond.

Lets make him get the money in real bad if he has a combo draw. Shipping now is almost flipping with j10 diamonds.


He's never folding a combo draw OTF, we can't deny equity by jamming or raising here. If you want to flip for 1600 then go for it.
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:03 PM   #3
joe412
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

I think your flop bet is small. He could be raising you with any 2 since you have history with this player and he thinks you would c-bet <1/2 pot with any 2 cards if he checks to you.
Could he have AT with Ad? How about KJss? Could he be putting you on 99 or AT? I think you should be thinking about what he thinks YOU have since you have 400 hours with him and he uses timely aggression. Do you 3 bet light in position? Do you fold to aggression? Do you c-bet too much in his eyes?

I flat this c/r 100% of the time. I don't see any reason to raise. You have position and he may lead into you on the turn if a brick hits or the board pairs. Let him get out of hand.
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:14 PM   #4
setintostraight
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Flat and eval turn. We don't want to scare off draws on the flop and only get 10% of his stack.
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Old 03-19-2019, 05:36 PM   #5
RottPhiler
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Call.
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Old 03-20-2019, 12:13 AM   #6
KID777777
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Flat and rip turn
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:50 AM   #7
monikrazy
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

With the qd feel pretty good flatting here, more inclined to rip it without

And yea the cbet is weirdly small, seems like a poor choice for the texture.
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Old 03-20-2019, 02:12 AM   #8
RottPhiler
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
And yea the cbet is weirdly small, seems like a poor choice for the texture.
Yep, bet at least half-pot. Can size bigger with middle set if the top card is an A or a K, as top pair can go ZOMG I have a big top-pair. Typically a flop x/r will lead turn. Easy ship over the top.
If positions are reversed and you are the one OOP, be on the lookout for a check-back from a flush-draw raising the flop to buy a free river.
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Old 03-20-2019, 05:40 AM   #9
DonkeyRock
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Not really a flop to size down on. I think $75 works,

When raised, flat, not folding many turns...
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:00 AM   #10
Chicagodude
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Yeah I hate the downsize flop bet myself against this guy. If you shove flop you're thinking he folds right? Well, discount my opinion because i'm a 1/2 flunky for sure. In my game, they'd commit to a shove on flop with a flush draw anyway.
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:45 AM   #11
Minatorr
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Esp w/ Qd like just flatting here.

Probably shouldn't be downbetting here with deep stacks and on this board texture.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:59 AM   #12
samo
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Flat. I'd also go $90-95 on flop, valuing numerous KX combos and potential FDs in his 3b calling range.

Fwiw, that open sizing seems small with $13 already in the pot.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:14 AM   #13
Avaritia
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

$60 is fine. Now tuck in your boner and call.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:18 AM   #14
Spanishmoon
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Bigger pre since you offer good IO to wise guys.

If you’re a GTO guy who always c-bets this size when you continue, it’s okay. If not, I’d bet higher on this board texture.

Otherwise I agree with StinkHole.
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:22 AM   #15
Lapidator
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

I guess we're going to fold the 2nd flush for 400bb if we get to the river with a 4-flush board...
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:20 AM   #16
BlindingLaser
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapidator View Post
I guess we're going to fold the 2nd flush for 400bb if we get to the river with a 4-flush board...
I think with the $5 BB ante I'd say this hand is only 170bbs deep...I'm aiming to get all of the money in on good turn cards, and deciding whether to play for a boat on A/9/
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:05 AM   #17
DonkeyRock
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Can we move onto the next action please?
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:15 AM   #18
Amanaplan
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

The fact he ckr this flop in a 3b pot means he has to be taught a lesson, plus you just naturally want to fastplay your most possible hand if possible. 850 total you shove this with or without Qd. I bet 60-70 max btw with everything.
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:21 PM   #19
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

*Most profitable
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:12 PM   #20
jtm1208
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyRock View Post
Can we move onto the next action please?
Hero Flats $175

Turn ($495):QK2A

Villain Jams $600 effective

Hero ??
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:08 PM   #21
Avaritia
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Well don't slowroll the poor fellow.
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:21 PM   #22
snowman
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtm1208 View Post
Hero Flats $175

Turn ($495):QK2A

Villain Jams $600 effective

Hero ??
I'm paying off his set of Kings here
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:01 PM   #23
Tiluh
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtm1208 View Post
Hero Flats $175

Turn ($495):QK2A

Villain Jams $600 effective

Hero ??
We havn't come this far to fold QQ now...

Edit: If he shows KK as suggested above then re-evaluate your opening statement and move on
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:32 PM   #24
setintostraight
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

Not sure how we can do anything but snap.

Against a range of AK,AQ,KK,JT we have 47.58%
If you add AA, we still have 43.58%.

We only need 35.3% here to call (someone check my math?)

Sucks to lose this sometimes, but it's not like you're 500BB deep.
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:47 PM   #25
Cosines11
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Re: PAHWM: Flop middle set, deep(ish), get raised

have to call. My guess is V had JdTd.
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