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10-09-2018 , 05:08 PM

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

$2/$5 Live........Table has been open for about 20 mins.

EP limps.

Fairly active raiser in MP ($900) raises to $20. Seems competent. Playing maybe 28/12 or so. I played with him yesterday.
Hero ($1300) OTB calls with 6d6h
SB ($315) OMC calls
BB ($400) unknown calls
EP limper ($300) unknown calls.

Flop ($100) KhTs6s.

In the previous hand MP villain had JhTh. Flop was Kx9h8h. He rivered a 7 and the normal table talk ensued

"Wow, what a flop"
"Yeah, Im never going anywhere with that"
ect

When the flop hits, MP shows his hand to his neighbor and chuckles. It checks to MP who bets $40......we do what?

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10-09-2018 , 05:25 PM

wait

banned

Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 1,115

Fold so this thread won't exist.

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10-09-2018 , 05:27 PM

johnnyBuz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 7,563

Raise to $150 and tell these short stacks to find another game.

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10-09-2018 , 05:38 PM

setintostraight

adept

Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 884

$150 sounds about right.

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10-09-2018 , 06:31 PM

DumbosTrunk

Verified Coach PLO5

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 7,327

Raise to $140. Wet board + set = raise.

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10-09-2018 , 06:34 PM

Homey D. Clown

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,259

Yes, we don't want to do anything fancy on this flop. 150 sounds about right indeed.

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10-09-2018 , 07:06 PM

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Does anyone think that MP showing his hand to his neighbor right after that last flop has anything to do with anything...hand range wise?

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10-09-2018 , 07:22 PM

PatraTheCat

enthusiast

Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

Does anyone think that MP showing his hand to his neighbor right after that last flop has anything to do with anything...hand range wise?

I thought it looked like a combo draw, making a raise even more the correct play. QsJs or something like that.

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10-09-2018 , 07:39 PM

4_4

grinder

Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 604

240. jam all turns.

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10-09-2018 , 08:05 PM

#10

daygrindmike

newbie

Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 40

I bet $175. If turn is a brick and checks to me I bet 80-85% of the pot.

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10-09-2018 , 08:13 PM

#11

bodybuilder32

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,423

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

Come on Mike. Don't you have hand histories that are a little more challenging then flopping the nuts?

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10-09-2018 , 08:17 PM

#12

branch0095

adept

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 928

Really wet board, I want to size fairly large. $180-$190

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10-09-2018 , 08:29 PM

#13

daygrindmike

newbie

Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 40

I like $175 because of the implied odds factor. Villian will call with any big draw. We're only 60% maybe 65% equity on flop vs a big draw that will call only 2 streets of value. He's not bluffing a missed draw on river ever once we raise flop like that. So the most we win is $175 plus 80% of pot on turn with a good turn card, if we're ahead - which we are because he's not going to show anyone a big made hand he's clearly on a draw when he bets $40 into a $100 pot on flop.

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10-09-2018 , 08:32 PM

#14

daygrindmike

newbie

Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 40

I'm also snap calling if he reraises on the flop or if he x/r a brick turn card.

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10-09-2018 , 09:16 PM

#15

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodybuilder32

Come on Mike. Don't you have hand histories that are a little more challenging then flopping the nuts?

I dont have the nuts but I clearly have a super strong hand. I think the interesting part of the hand is the guy showing his neighbor his hand.

What do we do if we think he has QsJs (which is what my initial thought was). I mean, Im not narrowing it down to one exact hand but I think this is a solid live read to work off of.

Do we raise call the flop and raise any non spade non A or 9 turn?
Do we raise the flop and check behind on any spade , A or 9 turn?

Can we ever be that sure of a read?

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10-09-2018 , 09:36 PM

#16

mdelore

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,315

I know raising is standard but calling is interesting. We can represent a lot of different hands that way. My interest in calling stems from not being thrilled to balance all our sets with raising flop with a lot of draws. Wouldn't this strat be capping our range when we call? It's really nice to have a set here if we are ever floating this flop with gutshots and stuff too.

There's something to be said for finesse in poker and I think we just ram jam sets and big draws here too often. IDK some food for thought at least.

Last edited by mdelore; 10-09-2018 at 09:41 PM.

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10-09-2018 , 09:48 PM

#17

daygrindmike

newbie

Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 40

I think at 2/5 we just go with the standard play.

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10-09-2018 , 09:52 PM

#18

bodybuilder32

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,423

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

He can also have Q9ss, J9ss, 97ss, 98ss, 87ss, or the nut flush draw. Feels like you're about to level yourself.

I mean if you are really that sure of your read, then freaking bomb the flop to like $500-$600 since he's never folding a draw that big. Then you can pot commit him on blank turns and get his stack in as a massive favorite.

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10-09-2018 , 09:58 PM

#19

KT_Purple

banned

Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 553

i think i would get impatient here and just shove the flop tbh, everyone is short and it's going to be hard to hide your hand anyway and there are so many draws might as well charge max. paired boards arent even the nuts for you and it slows them down anyway, so just shoving here on the short stacks

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10-09-2018 , 10:03 PM

#20

samo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,251

Pretty small flop sizing 5-way. I’d raise small ($105) to keep KX hands in. Obvious draw-heavy board. Unless the opponents know you are capable of large sizing the drawing part of your range, I think a 3X+ might fold a large part of their ranges. Smaller sizing may also get a shorty to gii.

As far as MP range … JTs is a good opener especially if table is limpy. He still limps more than raising, given the estimated VPIP/PFR.

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10-09-2018 , 10:06 PM

#21

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodybuilder32

Im not the math expert, but it seems to me that if we could ever be that sure that he had a FD and straight draw or FD and gutshot, that there is a better line.

Paging Shai.....

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10-09-2018 , 10:07 PM

#22

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by KT_Purple

i think i would get impatient here and just shove the flop tbh, everyone is short and it's going to be hard to hide your hand anyway and there are so many draws might as well charge max. paired boards arent even the nuts for you and it slows them down anyway, so just shoving here on the short stacks

The preflop raiser started the hand with $900.

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10-09-2018 , 10:09 PM

#23

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by samo

I actually estimated his VPIP/PFR range that way based on the fact that he has called quite a few raises. He hasnt limped much. When you call a raise your VPIP number goes up but your PFR raise number doesnt, correct?

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10-09-2018 , 10:12 PM

#24

samo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,251

^
Yes.

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10-09-2018 , 10:19 PM

#25

mdelore

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,315

lol I didn't see all the preflop calls, I assumed heads up. Raise the flop. If you think someone is likely to c/r behind then I like a call better but the safer play is raise.

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