V1 (200) middle aged Asian guy who dropped 4 $100 bis then reloaded for 200. Plays way too many hands pre from every position, has sizing tells pre, and is a station postflop, but is capable of folding top pair to a big bet. Has shown a few ******ed bluffs.

V2 (200) old white guy, but not an omc. Calls wide preflop, and while he usually takes passive lines, he sometimes mixes things up.

I cover, and have been playing semi-lag, but no one besides v1 has been calling me down light, and that's more because he's a donk than that he noticed I bet too frequently to always have a hand when I do so.

V1 opens to 5 in MP, V2 calls in MP, it folds to H who as ATo in BB, who...

This is 1/2 presumably.... You said v has sizing tells so I think you need to disclose what a $5 open means. Does his $5 open range include a lot of Ax that dominate us or is it all small pairs SCs and med strength Broadway's/ Ax?

3bet to 25 dollars

what are V1's pre sizing tells? small open = weak hand, or the other way around?

no limpers to V1, correct?

if small is weak, i'd 3b for value because they will both call worse. would prefer to have ATs obviously. call is still +EV but i think 3b is more +EV (if small open = weak)

Small is weak--I think he's opening 76o and occasionally worse depending on his mood. He never or rarely uses this sizing with a strong hand.

Way too many hands was not hyperbole. This dude's really, really bad pre.

With ATo out of the blind every option is OK. You are deep enough to flat and look for a good flop, just strong enough to raise to isolate the stationary fish and OOP with a marginal hand you could just fold. I think fold > raise $20 > call but only slightly and I might do any of them in game.

If you flat you have 2 guys who 'open wide/too many' behind you for the rest of the hand. We're not sure if you need to donk out here or if they will bet for you. And even if they will bet, how do you define where they are at on 'most' boards?

I'm certainly not saying this is a fold a high percentage of the time, but YOU must be capable of playing the cat and mouse that comes with calling OOP. In fact I probably never fold against these guys with ATo unless I get a 'feeling' from V2 during his call.

Raise to define their cards or take it down. If they are stubborn, then I would tend to flat and not bloat a pot OOP.

I would think that most of these pots get checked through on the Flop and then you take them down when you donk the Turn. Is that worth the 'risk' .. can you get a 33% sucess rate? GL

My general blind strat is that I tend to play pretty tight out of the blinds not defending all that much and then look for occasional spots to 3! Mostly looking to pick up dead monies. I'm a little more inclined to 3! Here. However it sounds like you have a very active image so maybe your 22-25 raise is always getting called?

I guess if I felt I can pick up the 13 dead money something like 1/2 the time and that I have at least 25% equity when called I'd go ahead and raise to 25.

Hero raises to 25, and both villains call.
Flop (75): AcKc4x, and I don't have a club. Hero?

betting for value, to get called by worse Aces, a few Tens and club/broadway draws. $50

You have a station and a passive caller. This is a bet, bet, bet ... a bet of $55 will set up a Turn giving 2.5 to 1 to call the $120 into $305 if you only get one caller. No time to get cute here and try to c/r against these V as described.

Unfortunately you probably get no callers here .. glad you raised? GL

Against the old white guy, I b/f on the flop. Old white guy has too many combos of AQ and AJ here that doen't 3bet preflop because old white guys only 3bet AA and KK.

The SPR in the hand is close to 1 for both Villains and we have top pair so its pretty hard to not just get it in on any non club turns.

Both villains called, both are more likely on draws then better hands. Bet $50 on flop. If raised on the flop you have a hard decision, but probably call V1 and fold to V2. Plan to shove any non-club turn if called.

Both villains are the type that will sometimes turn up with AJ/AQ and refuse to fold but have more worse hands that will call at least one bet. That makes this a straight forward value bet situation. Variance is relatively high because you will be value owning yourself occasionally on the turn, but V1 at least still has lots of worse hands that can call.

fwiw the suit of the 4 and the suit of your A is mildly pertinent. Since people tend to play Axs our A suit combined with the 4 suit and the AC on the board will determine how many A4 combos are in play. At the moment that's of little concern though.

There is 75 in the pot. If we can get 1 caller at $65 the pot will be 205 ott with 110 behind for a trivial shove 1/2 pot shove. So I think we bet 65 to commit on non club turns.

I think the consensus position of betting flop is a good line, especially since both villains have a lot of hands that have 3-12 outs against me. At the time, I thought that if I checked they would put me on TT-QQ and bet with all worse aces and every draw. I also don't want to only have underpairs when I check flop.

I neglected to mention that both villains were passive when facing bets but were more aggro when shown weakness. V1 would call flop with any gutshot and V2 would not draw without getting the right price.



Hero checks, V1 checks, and V2 bets $30, Hero calls, V1 folds.
Turn (145): AcKc4x 7x
Hero checks, V2 bets 16???

To be honest, I hate this play a hand with me from the onset.

First off, and most importantly, you are not giving us the information that we need to make the right decisions. You say that V1 is a station post flop, but he can be pushed off top pair with big bets. This isn't a station. This is either a decent player, or scared money, or a number of other things, but this isn't a station. A station is the exact opposite.

You say that V2 mixes things up post flop. What does he do? How does he mix it up? What sorts of things (related to this hand) does he do that we should be aware or, concerned with, or just generally be thinking about when we are trying to decide the best course or action against him?

Has anyone 3bet V1 before? Has anyone 3bet anyone so far? What happened?

We really need as much (relevant) information as possible in order to give you the best advice.

Anyway, 3bet pre if you think they will fold.
Call pre if you think that they are terrible post flop and will pay you off with second pair type hands and generally have no idea what they are doing. If the raise was larger then I'd say that calling was pretty suboptimal, but we should be able to show a profit calling 1.5bb into a 3 way pot with ATo.
Fold pre if they are decent villains who aren't going to be dumping large amounts of chips with mediocre hands. If the raise was $10+ 3betting would be about even with folding (reads depending) and both would be a lot better than calling.

That turn bet by villain makes no sense unless villain is trying to temp hero into raising. Flat and see what happens.

I can't think of any other reason for such a silly small bet in this situation. If villain had to go first it could be a terribly sized blocking bet, but villain had the option of checking. Even if villain has a strong value hand and gives hero no credit for flush draws villain should either check or bet more.

Folding pre is definitely worse than calling. We have to put $3 to play in a $16 pot before rake, with a hand that is ahead of their ranges.

this is 100% false. Calling a raise with ATo is the worst option, even if we are ahead of their range pre flop.

If I don't 3bet, I would fold. If you are not comfortable playing ace high post flop in a 3bet pot, fold. If stacks don't allow enough room to play post flop in a 3bet pot, fold.

What are you doing on most flops when you don't hit anything? Check/folding? How good are you gonna feel about an ace when he cbets? Are you calling down AJ?

If he misses his flop, he's most likely to cbet. Are you calling him down with ace high knowing you are ahead of his range? and if you are flatting pre to try to bluff him post flop, it would have been much easier to 3bet pre in the first place which is the correct play in the spot (and not for "value").

man I would really hate to get raised here by this guy. Basically my goal is to get to showdown without putting too much money in. I don't think he would bet another club without a flush though so if he bets hp on a club river I would fold.

As silly as his bet is, I would probably call. I don't know what this guy has up his sleeve but it looks like he is begging to get raised.

Hero calls 16

River (177): AcKc4x 7x Kx
Hero checks, Villain snap shoves by placing all of his chips across the betting line (as opposed to declaration). Villain is otherwise giving off no physical information. I have seen Villain bluff on the river against people who have played passively against him postflop, but I have never seen him bluff with this sizing and I'm not totally sure if he's capable of it. Hero?

fold. 129 into 177 is a big bet for an old passive man. he's probably full.

Looks like an easy fold to me. You are giving up most of your QQ- on the flop and betting AX, so your range should be a lot of KX and whiffed flush draws. Villain's play doesn't look like a draw and it doesn't look like he thinks you have a draw. There is a good chance villain has AK/44, hit a boat on the river and is hoping you have KX.

so, V2's betting line is:

call
1/2 pot
1/10 pot
2/3 pot

i can only put him on a ragged K and fold when his sizing changes so much on river

The turn bet is weird. I'm having a hard time seeing what value hands villain is willing to lay such massive odds with unless he specifically puts you on a pp which is of course possible given your 3! Pre and c/c on flop.

If he had a gssd or FD he has zero fold equity and reopened the betting action rather than taking the free card.

If he somehow did take this line with a draw you certainly capped your range giving the green light to bluff. At the same time Kx is certainly in his range.

Your getting 2.3:1 on a call which means villain has to be bluffing about 30% of the time or more for a call to be profitable. Since we don't have detailed info on villains turn and river play tendencies this is a fold as his line is more consistent with Kx than anything else IMO and the avg villain isn't bluffing frequently enough to call here.

I'm not a fan of how this hand was played.