1/3. Opener (EP2) is new to me, but seems like a regular. Played together about an hour, has opened a # of hands, but no showdowns to validate anything. Main V (CO) basically just sat down -- MAAG, slacker-attire, earbuds, maybe played with once before, but don't recall much about their game. Hero is nerdy MAWG, playing tight. Interested in feedback on various decision points throughout this hand. We're about $400 effective. Thanks for your input.

Hero (OTB): A J

Fold, EP2 r $13, fold, MP1 c $13, fold x 2, Villain (CO) c $13, Hero ???

Flat. 3-bet is overplaying.

I could go either way, though it is a nice hand to see a flop with in position.

3ball very tempting however, though only if effective stacks were deeper.

Yeah, count me in on the flat camp on the button with these stacksizes.

As Johnny mentions, this is also a nice 3 bet candidate with nutted potenial if we are deeper. When stacks are deeper its important to get in more money pre to lower the SPR some, and make it easier to fully stack people than it would if we just flat. For example if we overflush someone 300 or 400 BB deep, its not uncommon to see full stacks not going in due to the pot is so small if its no 3 bet pre and the small flush can get MUBSy.

Since there is not much to go on with regards to how sticky the opponents are, I'd mostly flat. If the raiser and main V had fold buttons, 3-b with $43 of dead $ in.

I'd typically just flat preflop here. Relative to stacks, we're getting a fairly cheap price, and can simply play our nice multiway hand in position on the world (great relative and absolute position). The more the opener opens regardless of position the more reason to 3bet, especially with all this dead money in the pot, but I typically give EP openers respect unless they've shown otherwise.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Would rather 3bet if we were deeper or if we had AJo. I just flat this in position here.

Yeah, I figured to have some flexibility preflop, but as others have noted, there's too many unknowns about the PFR & we're not super deep either, limiting our options even further.

So I end up taking the standard route and calling.

Hero (OTB): A J

Fold, EP2 r $13, fold, MP1 c $13, fold x 2, Villain (CO) c $13, Hero c $15, fold x 2

Flop ($51): A 3 4

EP2 x, MP1 x, Villain b $45, Hero ???

I just flat here.

Very similar to the other thread we have going when flopping TPGK with nut flush draw. I just flat. Stacks are still fairly deep $ wise, so if we get in the money now it's most likely the case we are behind. With TPGK, we are targetting very few better hands with a raise to fold (basically AK and AQ that didn't 3bet preflop). We have a showdownable hand that UI doesn't want to build a bigger pot, with our TPGK we'll most likely be able to get to the river to realize our equity, we're not afraid of any draw, we're cool with inviting others along (especially since most hands that are behind are drawing almost dead), so let's just see a turn in position and go from there.

GimoG

This situation is not very similar to the other thread. This is a pretty clear flat call vs. an unknown who flatted a PFR and is betting a nearly PSB into 3 other players while you block most of the best preflop flatting range flush draws.

It's certainly not identical by any means, but it does have similarities (the most common one being that the range of hands we are looking to fold is very small and meanwhile we're pretty cool with allowing the hands we crush to continue).

GcluelessNLnoobG

GG - you play in a game and with a style that is 180 degrees away from me. I know people often give you crap but I want to learn more about why you play this way. I’d like to ask a couple of questions:

1) we’re 4 ways to the flop here. What do you think is the % of the time we’re ahead right now? I would assume 75% i’m Good here, you suggest we’re ‘most likely’ behind.

2) if the $45 lead put V AI, how would you play it?

3) under what scenario’s would you commit your stack OTF, if any?

I appreciate your point of view and thank you ahead of time for your feedback.

Flat. Keep in weaker FDs

Haven't read other responses yet. Preflop: Call, especially without reads. As we'd likely fold AJo here (right?), really looking for combo-draw on flop.. but won't complain about 2-pair or JJx flop.

he's not saying we are most likely behind now. he's saying if we get stacks in by the flop, there is a good chance that we are behind against villain's stack off range, and i agree.

villain will definitely have a lot of A3 and A4, sometimes 43s, and 44 and 33. He may have some AQ and AK, but probably not too much of the latter. If we are being optimistic and give him half the AQ and AK combos that don't 3b pre and stack off 133BB deep on this flop, some bluffs like KQhh - we have around 45% equity. Why shovel in money with a hand that will be less than a flip to scoop, when we can call and go against a much wider range from villain where we can pot control and lose less when we are behind and still when 2 or possibly 3 streets, depending on action.

in regards to your other questions, if villain was only $45 deep this is a slam dunk call. if he was something like $100-$150 deep i may want to just raise flop and get it in because we're never folding turn anyway and we may want him to commit before a bad card for him comes out (heart), but honestly i prefer this hand to just be a call.

I don't think this is similar to the other thread at all, frankly. This one is a crystal clear call. We have two players behind us left to act, and we want to encourage them to call with dominated draws. There also are not any overpairs available in their ranges, unlike the other thread.

I can't think of a good reason not to raise. EP2 would have bet even AA here.
For CO, some better could fold (AQ), and lots of worse could call. If we just call, a on turn could kill action before we got more money in the pot.

I'd raise to ~$120 to keep his fd (or maybe oesd) in the hand. If CO raised, I don't think we could range him at just 44/33, so I'd get ai.

Pre: I don't think 3b is overplaying, but as others have stated, deeper stacks, at least vs the initial raiser would be better and some reads would help make it more solid. I think you should weigh how often your 3bets & others are called in general. If you haven't 3b this session and have been tight like your description, you could have a ton of FE. The 13bb in the pot + ~38% equity we might have vs a tighter calling range makes 3b viable. It might increase variance, but I suspect it won't decrease your overall winrate. The more people overfold in your games both pre and post, the more sense it makes to 3b... especially if they call pre loose but continue much tighter post. Lots of guys like that around. (Flatting works too... just saying why 3b can also work)

Flop: Very happy to call. Like others have said, we want to keep a lot of hands.

For those advocating a call (everyone) to let other drawing hands continue, do we think there is a higher chance that MP1 has one than CO does? I think EP2 has no c/c range that we are dominating (I think he would bet out say KQ), so the only "other" is MP1. I think we'd have a better chance of getting more money from a drawing hand from CO than from MP1.

Hard to say without reads that CO would fold a drawing hand to a raise, but MP1 would call a single bet with a drawing hand oop against 2 others, one who is tight.

You can't give specifics on what we believe they have...he has exactly that isn't the way to think about the hand. Instead give everyone a range. Until we have more info that CO leads with FDs rather than pairs , or vice versa, I'm still saying someone here has an ace, or a draw. Either way I'm way ahead of both on that flop and want them coming along for the ride. Let mr I have an ace two pair it up when I nut up on the FD...etc etc etc.

Flat for the reasons mentioned by other posters and see what the two other players do.

flatting is standard.

however we can range villains quite well in this spot. a min-raise can be a very effective option. villain's weaker Ax almost always calls (people just don't c/f Ax here), the value of which outweighs the times we push out a drawing hand call from the other players. note that EP2 is almost always check/folding anyway given action and flop texture, so only MP1 is really a check/call candidate if we flat. at these stakes, i've also seen MP1 check/call $90 here more often than you might think.

final advantage is playability which is vastly better if we raise.

so i click it back

Typically I like slamming in $ with pair + fd but this spot it doesn't accomplish much besides folding out worse aces.

Flat ... spot is not similar to the other thread ...there is a money card otf in a raised pot ... V is betting 90% pot ... little FE if any.