I like a small bet on the river after a bet OTT. It lets us find a fold if we get shoved on and it also gets called by a worse ace a lot of the time.

If I had a read that a particular V is on the tighter side, I might just check back though.

ya if he check/called turn and checked river on brick rivers i'd bet small for thin value. that's also a spot where for a lot of players checking back would be considered standard, but would be missed value in most cases.

Good to see you back. Hope all is well.

One other advantage of the cib is that it puts people off the FD. A call on the flop screams FD. It would have been unlikely that Hero was going to be paid off if it comes.

Trying to decipher this.

"cib" = click-it-back (flop)?

Yes, click it back.

8o8 is a long time poster in this forum that posts infrequently these days. It seems ridiculous now, but at the time when this forum opened, most of management and the mods thought it would be as busy as the international forums are today.

Thanks Venice, same to you. And I agree, we gain deception as well.

If we called the river bet, I'm fine with the hand as played.

Regarding the turn:

- If we bet $75, the pot will be $291 on the river with us having just $267 left; are we calling a bet if he donks? Are we making a bet? AJ UI will actually be behind quite a few Ax hands at this point and shouldn't be thrilled about working towards 3 postflop bets for stacks, imo.

- We keep in all air by checking turn (he has air some of the time here).

- We don't enable worse Ax (which are drawing to 2 outs) to make a hero fold (which a lot will do considering the next bet will be for stacks).

- We don't really fear any draw.

- We hate life if we get check/raised (and will most likely have to fold our nut flush draw, which would suck horribly).

- Seems to me the biggest reason to bet is to get value against another flush draw; it's a good reason, but doesn't trump all the reasons not to bet, imo.

By the river, in HU cases I've convinced myself that calling 4-to-a-straight bets when the main flush draw has busted will be profitable since almost everyone will bluff this situation.

GoutofstepwiththeforumG

my answers below gobble

checking turn is basically pot-controlling, which isn't always bad, but in this case, it's sizeable missed value IMO.

@ 808 (mostly clarification)

- with < PSB for the river if we bet the turn, it's sort of difficult to not have any bet basically commit stacks (although I've lately been coming around to the fact that I can make fairly stupidly exploitive bet/folds here as no one is bluffing in these cases, very similar to how someone can bet/fold the river in Limit)

- if he binks his air he may consider paying off a bet after we weakly check back the turn (looks like we are on a busted flush draw), or he may decide to make one more bluff attempt himself UI (blowing us off a busted flush draw that may be ahead of his air); the weak looking turn check really brings this into play, imo

- I'm not hating getting check/raised because I think he's bluffing (I don't think he is); I'm hating it because I have to now fold a big pot where I likely had quite a few outs (and yet my bet prevented me from realizing my equity)

- yeah, I think we're perhaps disagreeing on how much value we're extracting from a worse Ax; if we check back the turn, we pretty much guarantee we extract another bet from him on the river (apart from perhaps a scare card falling); by betting, I think we lose worse Ax a decent amount of the time (but I guess it depends on your opponent, our image, etc.)

GnicetoseeyouaroundagainG

I definitely flat. Why get blown off the hand? I'm pretty conservative though about these things.

Do u think AQ+ takes this line on a blank turn with SD/FDs on the board?

I advocated a 1/2 PSB value bet. AT- will likely call one more street. Also charging A5s/A2s hand which have extra outs.

Thanks. This was by & large my processing OTT, but I also understand the majority of feedback insisting on keeping the lead for value. I think w/o the FD in our hand or on board, a x back is probably more "standard".

Thanks again to all responders....

Hero (OTB): A J

Fold, EP2 r $13, fold, MP1 c $13, fold x 2, Villain (CO) c $13, Hero c $15, fold x 2

Flop ($51): A 3 4

EP2 x, MP1 x, Villain b $45, Hero c $45

Turn ($141): 9

Villain x, Hero x

River (*): 2

Villain b $85, Hero c $85

Definitely missed value.

Better to extract that river bet on the turn. That way you still stack him when you hit.

Yup, fair enough.

not that results matter but, i like my preferred line (click back flop, bet turn)