Raise to $300 to isolate aggro donk. If anyone ships behind you know you can fold. I don't see V1, 2, or 3 to be the type to ship a draw, so you would like be up against 2pair or better. Would probably get it in against aggro donk if he shoves.

Lots more ways you can be facing a draw then a hand that beats you. JJ and 99 should be discounted as limp/call hands at a loose/aggro table so J9 and 66 are the only hands likely to beat you. On the draw side there are QT, T8, 87, flush draws, OE and gut shot combo draws and some 9X+flush draw/9X + backdoor draw type hands.

If it was just V4 I would say raising is obvious. With 3 people to act behind you it isn't so simple. Looking at the combinations I think raising is still best. Make it $300 and see what happens. If there are multiple calls/shove behind you might find a fold, against any single opponent I would probably feel committed.

To add something, I believe this player is weighted towards valuehands when he leads out here.
I don´t think he´s gonna stack off with AJ. I don´t think he has AJ all that often anyways since he likely raises pre, I don´t think he has JJ or 99, he might have 66, and he has all combinations of J9 and a lot of 96.

I´m not too concerned with that, but I feel he folds something like QJ or JT quite often here against a raise. regarding live reads, he kept talking to me and acted genuinely strong whatever that means with a guy like him and offered me a schnaps before I act, V1 was pretty still and likely interested, shorty was kinda pissed and clearly folding and BTN is pretty good at not giving anything away.

Hero himself is a huge tellbox because I never keep my mouth shut and move around all the time, but I´m pretty confident I do it both with value and bluffs, so don´t think they can read too much into my behaviour, although it would certainly be possible, I might have to work on that.

I can't stand our preflop result (getting in << 5% of our stack preflop, and yet setting up a handcuffing <= ~5ish SPR OOP against 4 opponents, some of which are difficult, that we gave 30+ IO too). Honestly, I'd rather have limped, but that's me.

I probably check the flop, underrep my hand (or at the very least not turn it face up on the table with our first action), and see what happens.

ETA: Just noticed we were donked into. I guess I just call and see what happens. Putting in massive amounts of money with a raise just to possibly fold seems meh; and if anyone behind can get tricky with big hands and just flat our raise we're basically in hell.

GbutIkindathinkeverythingwedoatthispointsucks,butI alsosuckatdeepstacksowhateverG

I agree that raising can get V1 off a bunch of reasonably strong single pairs. I'm not too worried about that. I'm more worried about seeing a turn with no idea where hero stands. Particularity if somebody else comes along the only cards you want to see on the turn are aces and cards under 5 that are not hearts. I would rather cut this crowd down now.

If this was heads up and V1 was likely to bluff any potentially dirty turn card you can make a case for flatting, closing your eyes and calling down any run out. Super high variance but potentially more profitable against super bluffy opponents. I have always found this a bad idea OOP against multiple oppoents, one pair just isn't good enough often enough.

It´s tough to limp when it´s limped to us and we are in the BB. do you advocate a check?

Losing poker is putting in 40% of your stack and folding. A raise is going to get us close to that point. We'll have less than a PSB left if we are called. The arguments for raising sound too close to "let's raise to see where we're at."

I like a call better. We have some room to move, get to see what everyone else does and we can represent the FD (we actually the ace).

Calling gives the villains behind you a great price on their draws while they have position on us, so they have implied odds against us as well.

Raising allows us to get max value from an opponents range we are ahead of while denying equity to other opponents at the same time. It also has the added benefit of losing the minimum in case someone wakes up behind us with a monster.

If we just call, we are going to find ourselves playing the rest of the hand passively. Playing passively will allow our opponents a free river card to beat us when we check the turn and we will also pay off massively when someone binks on us and we can't put them on a hand.

Additonally, we could end up folding the best hand to a savvy opponent that sees we are capped at one pair when we keep passively calling or checking on the turn and river.

The only positive of calling us if our opponents behind us fold and we are now heads up in position. This could happen, but flatting the flop could also induce an opponent behind us to shove a draw and force us to fold the best hand.

Noooooo, that can’t be right.

Raise/GII mostly on this board against this line-up.

Going 325 now.

Grunch...

So we're ~500bb deep and we think playing 1p from the blinds in a 25-way hand is going to be a fun?

A few options...

1) Double check with the table that the "7-duece" game is on... then double check my cards and make it $200.

2) Check it back and play the hand like its top pair OTF but 25-ways.

3) Make it the standard BB raise and play like a nit.

4) If I'm feeling like a douche (most of the time?) clearly say, "all in" then push out $20. (J/K... but seriously...)

valuable input

As played, raise V4 AI and offer to run it 2-3 times.

Wow! Didn't you make a hefty raise pre?! The clowns in my home game would go for a c/r oop here with 2pr.

So he calls the raise pre & then folds to a min-raise otf?!

When a Rec acts out of character from her norm, it's usually an indication of strength.

So I call & hope to spike an ace or find that my read was wrong.

What I'm saying is that if my only two choices were OPs preflop result (which should be 100% expected to this raise size in this game, imo) and checking my BB, then I'd check my BB (and it ain't a remotely close decision for me).

GbutIsuckatdeepstack,sowhateverIguessG

-1000

Results O... yawn... Obvious poor reasoning/thought process.

H's raise size pre is fine. Going multi way is fine. Not winning with AA 100% of the time is fine. This is clearly a gold mine game and we start with the number 1 hand in poker, so getting action sounds pretty tight to me.

Very easy and clear call against the lead out on the flop. Wouldn't put too much more thought into it. Obv getting it in if shorty in HJ rips it in and donk bettor folds. If heads up to turn, we are pretty happy to continue calling down unless its a J. If everyone calls behind us on the flop, then we just have to be a strong judge of how badly the turn f***s us.

So, why is it GG that even though you admit that you suck at deepstack play- you enter threads and giving advice on deepstack hands over and over again, and over and over again refuse to learn from better more experienced deepstackplayers than you?

Its just mindblowing, and doesent add up.

Cuz in every single deepstack thread I see that involves multiway bloated pots OOP I see good posters divided on the best postflop play. Which kinda leads me to believe that these spots simply suck in general regardless of how good we are. Which leads me to the conclusion that avoiding them is simply the best solution, at least for us mere mortals.

GI'mallowedmyopinion,right?G

Sure youre allowed to your opinion, and i have never stated anything against that.

My question is still remaining though. Why do you have the constant need to post/give advice on deepstack hands when you are admitting yourself (and have done so countless times) that you dont have a clue what youre talking about regarding deepstack strategy?

Its like a guy who never eats steak insisting on having strong opinions in discussions on how to cook a steak properly.

Gil, I just answered your question. There's another very similar thread (multiway bloated pot) going on and so far the posters are 7 for folding the turn in a huge pot, 4 for calling, and 1 for raising. I mean, if the overall consensus from solid posters in a lotta these spots was overwhelmingly leading to one play, ok fine, we'd all learn a lot from it and have a lot more confidence in getting ourselves in these spots. But I'm not seeing the consensus in a lot of these spots, nor even the confidence in the plays themselves (the other thread I mention most are posting to do x "but hate it"). Seems to me we are just getting ourselves into massive high variance flippy situations where no one is really convinced of what is correct for huge stacks. My take on this is "no thanks", but you can do different if you feel like it.

ETA: FWIW, in this thread so far we have 6 in the raise camp and 4 in the call camp, ranging from very easy call to very easy gii (I don't think you've mentioned your play yet unless I've missed it). So I'm supposed to build big bloated multiway pots OOP like this and... have confidence in doing what exactly?

GcluelessNLnoobG

No one should ever listen to gobbledy.

Pre has to be alot bigger. Flop im just flatting.

GG,
Calling or raising this flop are both reasonable options. Neither are major mistakes. Folding the flop is probably a smaller mistake than not raising preflop. Just because a move doesn’t have clear consensus doesn’t make an alternative to the majority choice awful.

you are but your tone could be less authoritative

btw if hands werent tough sometimes this forum wouldnt exist. the long term goal for most people should be to get better at poker which means getting in hard spots and discussing plays. it also keeps the forum interesting. who wants to sit around calculating SPR all day? might as well do arithmetic problems.

i dont think anyone besides beginners has any interest in learning how to calculate SPR and calculating betting amounts to get all in before the river (i.e. doing math problems). seems like that is for the beginners forum.

I'm allowed to have my opinion, and as always I typically leave it up to the OP to get themselves into spots they are comfortable with.

GmanywhodisagreehavejustasauthoritativeatoneG


Couldn't disagree with this more.

As I mention above (or is it in the other current similar thread, can't remember), a lot of the difference between long time losers versus long time winners is that losers constantly get themselves into difficult spots far more often. It's not that a lot of the winners are any better at these spots than the losers are; it's that they simply don't get themselves into the spots nearly as often as the losers do (and purposely plan their hand to avoid them).

You can approach poker however you want. But a lot of winners simply approach it from a very boring perspective. If you want fireworks plus winning, this hobby might not be for you.

GimoG