Quote:
Originally Posted by kookiemonster
If we believe he is three betting us light, are we considering 4 betting with some trash like this?
If we are just going to fold to a 3 bet we might be better just folding pre and nitting it up for awhile. Or seat/table changing.
Or we could limp QTs, which has decent high card value against likely ranges in this dynamic (BTN vs. SB) even regardless of our history and strong post-flop equity in the very best position at a table with fairly deep stacks relative to the pot size.
Definitely never folding this on the BTN in this spot.
4-betting is a mistake. If you 4-bet, you enter spew territory. A 4-bet treats your hand like ATC because V will very likely 5-bet or fold but he won't call oop for ~1/2 of stacks. And if he does call, it's not a good thing. Most likely he'd only call a 4-bet as a trap / never fold anyway.
Also and worse, 4-betting totally undermines our positional advantage. Being in position here with QTs with deep stacks is a HUGE advantage. It's easy to forget the value of position... position is the most important thing.
I agree 2 hands isn't usually enough to say V is 3-betting light... but it's now 2 hands in 1 hour with this exact BTN vs. SB dynamic. In an hour, we probably only have an "n" or only 2 or 3. Yes, it's just 2 hands, but I think it's reasonable to think we're starting to see a trend, and I see an increased likelihood that we get 3-bet if we raise... and limping isn't a bad option at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpexDome
We've only been 3-bet twice. So there really isn't a guarantee that V will make an aggressive play from the SB if we limp. I think it's way more likely that we see a 4-way limped pot.
We want V to make a mistake. And we want him to do it by making aggressive plays out of position, when we have strong/playable hands.
Hero has been playing "a little more aggressive" than usual, and Villain is a focused introvert. The limp may look suspicious.
Again, so what? Let's say we limp, and V surprises me a little bit - instead of raising, he checks his BB. Maybe SB completed as well. And of course, the first limper continues, so we're 4-way to the flop in a limper pot.
We have QTs in the best possible position possible in a game where position is most important and stacks are very deep, which is a perfectly fine outcome for our hand and particularly excellent for our position primarily because we get to see what everyone does first and we get the last say as to what kind of pot size we want to play and how we want to play it.
4-way limped pot in this spot? Not a terrible outcome at all. It's a terrible outcome if we raise BTN and get 3-bet again.
If you want V to make a mistake, OK. He'll make the biggest mistakes post-flop out of position with deep stacks. If you raise pre, you're fairly unlikely to force him into a big mistake. He can fold pre (never a big mistake), call pre (rarely a big mistake), or 3-bet pre (not a big mistake, and, even given history, I think we have to fold our QTs... the way to adjust / play this spot does not involve being a pre- or post-flop hero with QTs).