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Old 07-10-2018, 12:54 PM   #1
Playbig2000
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PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

The game is 2/5 1K max buy in 9 handed table, and most of the players are at least 300 BB's deep including a couple donators including one notorious donator who just busted the tournament. The table opened a couple hours long ago and about 4 were in the tournament together.

OTTH

UTG opens for 15 (older white guy who's range is not narrow)
everyone on the table calls
Hero in the CO (~2.5K) with 66 (flats)
Button and SB flat
BB (not that much of a read except he could be a squeezer. About 32 WG who just busted out of the tournament) makes it 60. 6 callers
Hero calls
Button wants to fold but reluctantly calls.

(I wanna skip pre since I'm content on my actions. I generally don't like squeezing that light without much equity and folding is out of the question since most players have 2 to 5K).

Flop (480) 6J4

Checks to hero. Hero?
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:05 PM   #2
stlows
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

I think I bet 300-350.
You gonna get called by Ad, maybe a J, and BB might have an overpair...
You are gonna narrow the field down to HU or 3 handed imo...
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:07 PM   #3
johnnyBuz
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

I like $250-275.

I want to get some loose calls and possibly induce. I'm content going broke here.

This game looks super fun.
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:31 PM   #4
shorn7
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

$275 sounds about right and get ready to ride the wave is my guess.
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:41 PM   #5
c0rnBr34d
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

It's never easy is it? I bet $305 here.
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:50 PM   #6
MikeStarr
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

Ill be the contrarian and say Im content to check and let it check thru. Betting $300ish is of course great also, but I would like to see a safe turn and/or let someone catch an A or K on the turn.
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:53 PM   #7
SwolyswoND
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

$300
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Old 07-10-2018, 02:02 PM   #8
c0rnBr34d
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Ill be the contrarian and say Im content to check and let it check thru. Betting $300ish is of course great also, but I would like to see a safe turn and/or let someone catch an A or K on the turn.
Just curious, in an 8 way pot are you planning to fold turn if a 5 or a diamond peels?
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Old 07-10-2018, 02:21 PM   #9
samo
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

With a solid image, $275 would likely narrow the field, get value from one/two of the donators.
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Old 07-10-2018, 02:57 PM   #10
MikeStarr
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

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Originally Posted by c0rnBr34d View Post
Just curious, in an 8 way pot are you planning to fold turn if a 5 or a diamond peels?
If its a diamond and someone bets, its a math problem. People say Im math challenged but I can do simple math like this

Its a 5 we have to see what happens, who bets, who calls ect.
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:13 PM   #11
c0rnBr34d
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

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If its a diamond and someone bets, its a math problem. People say Im math challenged but I can do simple math like this

Its a 5 we have to see what happens, who bets, who calls ect.
Are you only calling direct pot odds to hit your boat OTR for that math problem or are you trying to factor in potential action behind, and other implied odds? You said simple, but is it always that simple in your experience? With this many players in the potential for one guy to spaz seems hard for me to factor. I just dont play enough 8 way raised pots to have a feel.
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:26 PM   #12
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

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Originally Posted by samo View Post
With a solid image, $275 would likely narrow the field, get value from one/two of the donators.
If this is true, then there is no way I would consider checking in LP. A medium made flush would have bet, no? Unless they're waiting to see the turn be a non-diamond.
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:46 PM   #13
MikeStarr
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

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Originally Posted by c0rnBr34d View Post
Are you only calling direct pot odds to hit your boat OTR for that math problem or are you trying to factor in potential action behind, and other implied odds? You said simple, but is it always that simple in your experience? With this many players in the potential for one guy to spaz seems hard for me to factor. I just dont play enough 8 way raised pots to have a feel.
This hand isn't about me so I dont want to take over the thread. Betting the flop is obviously fine if not better.

But to answer your question, we are next to last to act so we should have a good idea where we are on the turn if someone bets. Its unlikely anyone is checking twice with a hand that beats us.
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Old 07-10-2018, 05:16 PM   #14
Playbig2000
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

Yeah, this is a good table, with the action players, but those are always the highest variance games to be in (not that I don't like them).

Flop (480) 6J4

Checks to hero and I decided to bet 275.

The pot is already bloated, and I would think a flush or a NFD would have likely already bet, especially after the pre flop 3bettor checked.

The button tank/calls, and everyone else folds so we're heads up.

I remembered how he tanked pre to the $60 3bet, so for that reason I don't think he has a multiway hand so I'm not too worried about a flopped flush and I know it's not an over pair, possibly a NFD or other high FD's with a pair type of hands like AJx. Sets would have likely raised me otf being he only had about 1200 to start the hand.

The button is also a player who knows and respects me, and knows I'm not doing this with anything less than two pair or possibly a NFD.

Turn (1030) K

Button has about 800 left, hero covers. Hero?
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:02 PM   #15
MikeStarr
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

Remaining stack size is a little awkward now. I dont see how anything less than all in now makes much sense.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:50 AM   #16
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

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Originally Posted by ZuneIt View Post
If this is true, then there is no way I would consider checking in LP. A medium made flush would have bet, no? Unless they're waiting to see the turn be a non-diamond.
Y, I think once the PFR checks, most flushes are playing straight forwardly in a mw pot.

Turn sizing is dependent on V image. Hero is solid, V seems to have a fold button based on pre action. Might fold AdJx to an $800 AI.

I'd go 1/2 PSB, maybe a tad less.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:00 AM   #17
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

I don't think he calls a jam either. Might go $350 here and try to get the rest in on river.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:05 AM   #18
MikeStarr
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
I don't think he calls a jam either. Might go $350 here and try to get the rest in on river.
If you bet as small as $350, the guy is barely making a mistake at all calling with any diamond. You're almost giving him direct odds to call. That seems pretty bad to me especially in a pot this big.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:31 AM   #19
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
If you bet as small as $350, the guy is barely making a mistake at all calling with any diamond. You're almost giving him direct odds to call. That seems pretty bad to me especially in a pot this big.
At most 8 outs: 8/46 = .174

1/.174 = 5.8

Odds to hit: 4.8:1

Pot odds: 3.9:1

I'm glad this "seems pretty bad" to you because you're still bad at math and poker is not dead.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:43 AM   #20
MikeStarr
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

If you bet $350 he needs 20.2% equity to continue. He has 18.1% with the hand we think he probably has which is AdJx.

Your $350 bet needs 20% equity to call. ALMOST direct odds. Just like I said. My math is fine.

If he happens to have KdJx...he has 29.5% equity and you just made a serious mistake with your bet. Making serious bet sizing mistakes in huge pots is really bad.

You have a serious attitude problem and its evident in every one of your posts...which mostly suck BTW.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:43 AM   #21
shorn7
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Remaining stack size is a little awkward now. I dont see how anything less than all in now makes much sense.
Exactly this. There is no size you can bet/fold here that won't give V immediate odds to call to draw with one . Gross.

I hate to even suggest this, but is there ANY merit to checking here since we could be behind? Not saying this is a classic WA/WB spot at all, but if we shove and get snapped, I certainly am not loving life.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:49 AM   #22
ASLheadwalk
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

All in, no other options are better.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:52 AM   #23
johnnyBuz
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

Mike we have a set. Play against his range. You are seriously retarded.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:03 AM   #24
MikeStarr
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
Mike we have a set. Play against his range. You are seriously retarded.
And exactly what do you think his range is? OP thinks its AdJx or "other high FDs with pairs". That's KdJx, QdJx.

Ive also seen players I considered good show up with hands I think are garbage in large multiway pots like 7d5x. I dont think he has that but its possible.

The point is that even if he ONLY has a diamond and his range has nothing else in it, you still gave him very close to direct odds and if you EVER pay him off when a diamond hits,,,even once in 20-30 times, he is correct to call your $350.

Why dont you tell us what you think his range is and do the math against it.

Last edited by MikeStarr; 07-11-2018 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:22 AM   #25
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Re: PAHWM 2/5 Deep with 66 in the CO

given odd stack sizing
shove
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