Hero has played a few orbits and has about $500. He likes to think he has a "competent player" vibe although has done nothing spectacular at the table so far.

V1 is a youngish guy who has been mostly taggy pf yet a bit of a pow. He has called down multiple streets on JT937r and lost to TT. The hand prior to the current hand he called down on JT843 and agonizingly folded river to V2. V2 questioned if V1 had QQ and V1 didn't respond.

V2 is a middle aged guy who seems somewhat loose passive.

On to the hand:

V1 has about $400 to start the hand, Hero has $500 and V2 covers.

Hero raises to $20 in MP with AA. V1 calls in CO and V2 calls on Button.

Pot: $65
Flop: T98

I?

1. Curse whatever deity/power/fictional character you prefer.
2. Bet $40 about half the time and check about half the time.

You would rather not give them a free card if you are ahead but this board is just too dangerous and you are often already behind. Your bets are both balance and value. You need to bet sometimes on scary boards when you have something other then the nuts. There are lots of worse hands that call call but you should be playing this cautiously and trying to get to the river without building a big pot. If you bet flop then check turn unless you catch an ace. If you checked flop then evaluate on turn.

Ckf

If one of the V's is loose passive I dont see how we dont bet here otf. If the taggy v continues you could consider bit more checks ott/otr but i doubt v will be raising enough on this board to make us fold the best hand enough to outweigh the value we get by getting multiple bets from the loose passive when we do.

if there was no loose passive v I like checking more but not to fold

Click pot and close your eyes!


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Vs loose passive just betting and going from there

B/F $45 primarily to iso, evaluate turn.

I definitely see merit in betting since the pot is not heads up and there is a more passive player on the button so the chance of someone stabbing with nothing is a lot less likely.

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PART 2
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I check, V1 checks, V2 checks.

Pot: $60
Board: T98

Turn: 3

I bet $30?

Flop check is fine. We for sure don't want this pot getting big.

Bet like 45 now. We probably have the best hand and that's enough free cards for the Q9's of the world.

Bet $48.

Half pot makes our hand look exactly like we have, with our holdings at the top of that range.

I don't feel too afraid of getting raised on this turn.

I'd save my pot-control bet like this for thin value on a blank river.

Still lots of worse hands that will call and you want to get some value out of the hand. $35/$40 looks good. Having checked the flop all of the pair+draw hands likely call now.

If you are check/raised you can pretty easily fold against these villains.

I agree that a bigger bet would be better than the $30 I bet.

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PART 3
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I bet $30, V1 (taggy) calls, V2 (LAP) folds.

Pot: $120
Board: T983

Turn: 5

Villian has about $300 remaining now and I cover.
I bet $55?

Agree on betting both turn/river, just larger value. Pair/combo draws/JJ/SD/FD will call higher bets.

Yeah I mean I don't think people are check calling 2 pair often at all, they're going to bet and get value and charge draws on the turn. I'm pretty sure the only hand you have to worry about is the stone nuts hoping to get a river x/r in.

When we check flop we can get away with going bigger ott/otr. ott I would psbish type bet and otr I would 2/3-psbish again.

We got a great runout to pound away and size up.

I bet all three streets. I’d bet the flop for $20, half pot turn, and like 35% psb on river. I would save my bigger bets on the flop with hands that have good draws, or nuttier hands (2p+).


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bet for value until you have a reason not to...I'd go 65-70% flop, 50%-ish percent turn/river.

it's not an ideal board, but you're still being called by so many pair + s/d hands. The turn and river here are pretty ideal runouts.

Yes, you'll value-own yourself sometimes, but that's poker. It's +EV at these stakes. Given the player descriptions, it seems unlikely that they'll C/R as a bluff and blow you off your equity.

I feel like this is a lot easier to say given their action otf and the turn and river that happened to show up.

As played bomb $100 on the river. You can probably bet fold.

I'm not sure why you aren't betting bigger against these villains as described, esp after you check for pot control on the flop and two dream cards run out.

Your $55 looks so weak and I wouldn't be surprised if you get shoved on light against certain opponents.

You’re OOP v 2 weaker players that most likely will call but not raise your flop bet. If V OTB 3b our flop bet of 20 I call and evaluate turn. Pretty thin since opponents aren’t laggy but maybe they raise pair+straight/flush draws here.

My reasons for betting 1/3psb otf:
1. To deny opponents free equity.
2. Get more money in when we’re good (all sets/straights will turn their hands face up and 3bet you on the flop AND continue on turn brick.

Side note: I wonder what the percentage is for the turn and river to be 2-5 or A without a club, basically all bricks. Prob like 15%, which rarely happens. By betting 20 on flop maybe some bottom pair hands without draws fold, increasing your chance to win. Sorry for the rambling though, morning thoughts zzz.

Edit: what’s a POW? I’m seeing the acronym in another thread of yours.


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I get what you're saying. We can probably get accurate information from them and not worry about being blown off the best hand.

I do think that our equity vs their continuing ranges on that flop is not really very good so that, along with protecting our range when we whiff and will always check (i.e. with AK), is why I think checking flop is decent.

However, I do think checking does makes more sense heads up rather than 3 ways probably since the 3 way pot is "protected" which makes it less likely we're gonna get someone to stab at the pot with nothing.

Pay off wizard. i.e. I saw him call a decent sized bet on the river with presumably a top pair hand when they only beat a bluff.

In the moment, my river bet was actually intended to look like a blocking bet and hope that he raised it as a bluff. I was bet/calling, not bet/folding as I was nearly 100% sure he didn't play a better hand in that manor unless he rivered a set with 55.

I think he basically has two types of hands on the river. A one pair hand that he also pot-controll checked the flop or a missed draw that he decided not to stab at with on the flop. I'm not sure the best way to maximize profits from both of those types of hands.

After the hand, I thought maybe the best play is to check the river and then jam all in over a bet in the attempts of getting him to be a super pay off wizard with, like Q9 or KT or something putting me on a bluff. I'd also get some money from him if he bluffs a missed draw. The risk is he just checks back a one pair hand that he would have called a bet with.

I was going to mention if you are betting small you should maybe be bet-calling so I guess I agree with the play.

I think it may be a bit overly fancy though. Against villains described as "mostly taggy pf yet a bit of a pow" I am betting as close to the pot as I can so all of his one pair hands are calling. If he shoves over that bet, with our read I think I have to say nice hand and fold.

You may be right. Betting pot on turn and river might be optimal here after the flop check. I usually bet closer to pot on the turn anyway, not sure why I bet so small. The POW read was just one earlier hand, but my hand is disguised enough to go for more value.