PAHWM: 2/5 A9 sooted from BB - Page 2 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Not crazy about flatting pre but here we are. I'm comfortable with calling a raise, so I would go 35-40 here. We still have very good equity against 88,77,66, 99, and T9. Implied odds against those hands are also very good.

X/c or x/r are also options here. Really the only bad plays are x/f or b/f.

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09-19-2017 , 11:51 AM

#28

niceguy22

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 824

We are 100 bb deep. Great odds here to call

Otf go for a large check raise to $170. That puts overpairs in the toughest spot. If we lead out, they can just call and it's no problem.

So check raise. If we're flatted, sucks a bit on a blank turn but we should probly shove and we're probly getting called at that point.

It doesn't matter much if flop checks through - we have A high. If it does, I'd bet pretty much all turns.

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09-19-2017 , 12:30 PM

#29

Playbig2000

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,347

I would want more information on the CO before blindly 3betting, I would wanna know if he folds to 3bets more than he calls, and he's not too tight pre. It's also likely if V calls the 3bet, the button's calling as well. I'm at least throwing in another 10 bucks.

If I c/r flop I'm getting it in, not leaving a third or quarter psb behind, I would rather use all my FE now.

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09-19-2017 , 12:33 PM

#30

QuantumSurfer

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,987

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

If I c/r flop I'm getting it in, not leaving a third or quarter psb behind, I would rather use all my FE now.

If all we have is a 1/3 psb OTT, we still have the equity to profitably get that in.

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09-19-2017 , 08:33 PM

#31

22dueces22

adept

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 784

I was thinking that check calling from the blinds looks pretty draw-heavy...if I make s hand, it might be easy for both Vs to fold. Plus, if I lead and get raised, I'm fine getting it in with this hand.

Hero goes 35 OTF...both call, with baV2 calling pretty quickly

Turn: 6♠️7♥️8♠️A♦️ ($150)

Hero?

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09-19-2017 , 08:37 PM

#32

SynZen

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie

For those advocating a lead: what typically happens when you lead with sets and straights in this configuration? I'm guessing you get called or raised.

I like a c/r to maximise fold equity and GII IF raised.

I would expect you'd get mostly calls. With this particular hand, you can/should be 3 barreling most run outs if you lead and I think most hands that fold to a c/r will call flop/turn and fold river. So by barreling you win an extra bet from those hands plus it keeps your range more dynamic etc. etc.

I think there's way too many people looking at this just like as a random combo draw OOP without initiative. If you change the draw/board/Vs, different lines make more sense to me but in this situation I prefer leading.

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09-19-2017 , 08:40 PM

#33

Tomark

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 2,831

shouldve C/R on flop. As played check call turn, you have good showdown value which sort of gets ruined by betting turn, and basically no river card sucks, 8 or 9 is probably the worst card.

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09-19-2017 , 08:45 PM

#34

SynZen

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by 22dueces22

I'd bet 100, could be swayed to tweak the sizing. You're ahead of everything but a slow played straight or maybe a scared 2 pair? The bulk of their ranges are going to be weak over pairs and/or draws though.

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09-20-2017 , 11:44 AM

#35

pokerforjoker

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 825

Quote:

Originally Posted by SynZen

Something like this. V1 could have worse FD, pair+9, one 99 combo, 10s, jj maybe.

V2 something similar plus MUBSY type holdings.

Fun hand

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09-20-2017 , 01:27 PM

#36

MIB211

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 3,010

My thoughts on all streets:

I'm flatting pre here. We're putting in 2% of effective stacks to go 3-way with a nut-mining hand. Would want a read before I 3-bet and basically never folding for $10 more.

I x/r flop. Don't think we have nearly as much fold equity from leading, which is why I would lead a nutted hand (sets or straights, maybe top two) here. Surprised that people are worried about flop checking through, as that's a fine result for us as well with A-high, and allows us to lead good turns and rep a missed x/r on the flop.

As played, I check turn. We now have showdown value to go along with our strong draw, so let's try to realize it.

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09-20-2017 , 01:32 PM

#37

MIB211

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 3,010

Quote:

Originally Posted by SynZen

I'd bet 100, could be swayed to tweak the sizing. You're ahead of everything but a slow played straight or maybe a scared 2 pair? The bulk of their ranges are going to be weak over pairs and/or draws though.

Disagree with this. We're behind AA which the PFR could have. We're behind AK/AQ that didn't want to let this go to one donk on flop. we're behind scared sets and turned aces up as well.

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09-20-2017 , 03:49 PM

#38

WCGRider

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Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,026

Preflop is call or raise, not close.

Folding is an absolute disaster.

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09-20-2017 , 04:04 PM

#39

Dizzyqtp

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Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 7,382

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCGRider

Preflop is call or raise, not close.

Folding is an absolute disaster.

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09-20-2017 , 04:46 PM

#40

SBussie

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCGRider

Preflop is call or raise, not close.

Folding is an absolute disaster.

/thread

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09-20-2017 , 04:49 PM

#41

dmccoy87

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 647

As if WCGRider knows **** about cards. Just your average BAD REG. *winks*

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

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09-20-2017 , 04:51 PM

#42

Playbig2000

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,347

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCGRider

Preflop is call or raise, not close.

Folding is an absolute disaster.

are you donking the flop, c/c, c/r, or crai?

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09-20-2017 , 05:16 PM

#43

jc315

adept

Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 1,049

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

are you donking the flop, c/c, c/r, or crai?

im pretty sure doug has said many times that he has no donk leading range on flops. said balancing it is too difficult. think he x/r this flop 100% and jams most turns

but thats the big difference between a high stakes GTO-based player vs LLSNL. for llsnl, we can get away by making exploitable moves with the belief that 1) we wont get exploited nearly enough and 2) the value in exploiting others is much more valuable in terms of $$$

playing vs other good high stakes pros/GTO players, you prob will get punished too much

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09-20-2017 , 06:32 PM

#44

dmccoy87

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 647

We're not really ever folding here, so I bet smallish to give good calling odds for draws and leave about a PSB behind for if we get two callers. 90-100 and jamming most rivers. Even if we brick we can fold out some better aces.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

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09-20-2017 , 09:22 PM

#45

cicakman

banned

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9,229

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCGRider

Preflop is call or raise, not close.

Folding is an absolute disaster.

How often do you search for your name?

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09-20-2017 , 09:24 PM

#46

smokingrobot

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,605

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWsports

I agree with the above 2 posters. If I 3b pre I'd make it 4.5x so $65-$70.

Im in this camp as well. I was going to say minimum of 60 but i think im going to start sizing my live raises a little larger more often, I think I might be missing out on some value in some spots vs some opponents.

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09-20-2017 , 10:07 PM

#47

SynZen

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIB211

Disagree with this. We're behind AA which the PFR could have. We're behind AK/AQ that didn't want to let this go to one donk on flop. we're behind scared sets and turned aces up as well.

Well there's only one combo of AA, AK/AQ are probably going to bet if checked to and call if you continue, so given you aren't going to fold who cares? If you're going to argue for a check I think you have to think there's a good chance that you're going to get raised if you bet, and I just don't think there are enough slow played hands on the flop given how wet it is to justify that. You are ahead so often, are going to be able to get value from so many more hands on the turn than the river, are unlikely to get raised, and in the off chance that someone has a worse flush draw and it hits, you'll get all the money instead of ~half.

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09-20-2017 , 10:13 PM

#48

SynZen

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc315

Well Doug's range in the bb is also WAY wider than the median poster in this forum... Not as hard to balance when we have to debate whether or not to play A9s in the bb to a 3x raise and a call.