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Old 01-14-2019, 02:31 PM   #1
acepokerblog
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PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

1/3 Live 10-Handed (No Rake, Time Charge)
$6 Straddle on BTN

Effective stack size is $700.

HJ - around 50 years old, Indian guy, much tighter than average player, hasn’t done much calling post-flop, I haven’t seem him raise in any street

SB - around 50 years old, Asian guy, I don’t have a good read, he seems slightly tighter than average player

BTN - around 50 years old, white guy, reg, he seems slightly tighter than average player, he raises 66+ KQo+ pre, bets draws on flop, but other than that not really aggressive post-flop

CO - me

1 EP limps, 1 MP limps, HJ limps, I look down at 6d4d.

Your play?

Last edited by acepokerblog; 01-14-2019 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 01-14-2019, 02:36 PM   #2
SuperGlue
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

I'd probably fold but I don't hate limping behind if there's some really bad players in the game and not a lot of iso-ing, but from what you've wrote it doesn't sound like that's the case. In fact, between the button straddle and a tighter than normal crowd I'd probably be looking to leave. The button straddle sucks in general and forces you to play tighter.
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Old 01-14-2019, 02:47 PM   #3
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

Snap fold.

Why?

V1, HJ is "tighter than average", gonna be tough to get paid

V2, SB, no read.

V3, BTN, "slightly tighter then average", he has position on us and its going to be tough to get paid

If you're going to base this entire hand on whether you can bluff your way through it w/o making a hand, then change the initial hand post to "hero looks down at XY"
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Old 01-14-2019, 02:48 PM   #4
twitcherroo
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

The title of your posts takes us already at least to the turn. If you want to limp, go ahead. I wouldn’t Raise.
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Old 01-14-2019, 02:51 PM   #5
browni3141
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

I would limp, but I'm not playing this hand to "get paid." I don't think raising accomplishes much against tighter players. Folding is fine and most people are going to argue that it's best.
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Old 01-14-2019, 03:22 PM   #6
aftrglw
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

I’m inclined to agree with Lap, folding pre. We have what sounds like one of the best players at the table IP against us OTB. Also, what 1/3 game has a time charge?
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:04 PM   #7
gobbledygeek
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

I think overlimping is ok but if Button had a much wider raising range or often raises his straddle it's more of a fold. I'm also completely fine with a fold since no one in the hand yet looks like a total moron and due to the Button straddle we won't have position on everyone. Yeah, stacks are deep, but who cares; if $700 goes in postflop we're behind with pretty much any hand than 64s makes against this crew. Not a fan of raising because people love seeing flops and there's already 3.5 people interested in the pot; we have low FE here or otherwise have to raise to far too much in an attempt to take down far too little.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:22 PM   #8
acepokerblog
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperGlue View Post
I'd probably fold but I don't hate limping behind if there's some really bad players in the game and not a lot of iso-ing, but from what you've wrote it doesn't sound like that's the case. In fact, between the button straddle and a tighter than normal crowd I'd probably be looking to leave. The button straddle sucks in general and forces you to play tighter.
I'm not used to playing with a straddle.

Why does the button straddle force us to play tighter?

Last edited by acepokerblog; 01-14-2019 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:26 PM   #9
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

Folding pre seems to be best.

I call and everyone else calls/checks including SB.

Flop (7 players, $42): Qd 5h 5d

SB bets $50, 3 folds, HJ calls $50.

Your play?
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:36 PM   #10
aftrglw
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

Someone probably has a 5, maybe both. We have essentially the nut low FD, even if our draw is live, we’re dodging any number of cards that will boat up our opponents and we’re not invested in this hand basically at all. I hate saying fold and find a better spot... but yeah, fold.
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:46 PM   #11
browni3141
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

It's just a fold. We're drawing to second best too often and occasionally already dead. We have no implied odds because how happy are we if we hit our flush and there is heavy action? This is the main reason pre-flop is not great, although this is one of the worst flops where we "hit."
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:49 PM   #12
gobbledygeek
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by acepokerblog View Post
I'm not used to playing with a straddle.

Why does the button straddle force us to play tighter?
Because overlimping means we'll be guaranteed to be OOP to at least one player; without the Button straddle, there's a decent chance we end up in position on everyone. And if the Button is aggro and likes to raise or defend his straddles then even more reason to play tight.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:52 PM   #13
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by acepokerblog View Post
Folding pre seems to be best.

I call and everyone else calls/checks including SB.

Flop (7 players, $42): Qd 5h 5d

SB bets $50, 3 folds, HJ calls $50.

Your play?
I'm folding the flop. Too good a chance we have a lot fewer outs than we think we do and we could even be ~drawing dead if one of them has a higher flush draw.

I don't hate preflop by any means, but a lot of it has to do with getting into a pot for cheap and then being able to evaluate the flop and action that comes postflop. I didn't play this hand to see this flop with this action, so I'm exiting now.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:43 PM   #14
acepokerblog
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

I agree with fold on the turn because of paired board and tight opponents.

I just got back into poker. Haven’t played seriously in years. One of my previous leaks was folding too much on the flop with flush draws so I instinctively called.

BTN folded so here we are on the turn.

Turn (3 players, $142): Qd 5h 5d Kd

SB bets $100, HJ folds.

Your play?
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:55 PM   #15
aftrglw
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

For the record, I wanted to avoid this spot. That said, we have to at least call if we're gonna pay 64s and turn the flush. Maybe I'm a maniac, but the Kd is a great card for us because it cuts down on near-nutted flush combos. I'm inclined to r/f turn here. I think we can pretty safely fold out 5x combos, possibly other middling flushes that beat us, and can easily fold to a raise. I'll admit it's kind of a crazy line though.
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Old 01-14-2019, 09:13 PM   #16
wait
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

Fold everywhere. Call turn
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:12 PM   #17
gobbledygeek
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

The obvious flush draw came in and yet this guy doesn't seem to care and continues donking into 2 opponents. No one plays 5x this way, so we're in fairly big trouble most of the time unless this guy is completely clueless.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 03-12-2019, 07:36 PM   #18
acepokerblog
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

I meant to finish up this post but I forgot. Anyways, hereís how it went.

-----------------------------------------------------

1/3 Live 10-Handed (No Rake, Time Charge)
$6 Straddle on BTN

Effective stack size is $700.

HJ - around 50 years old, Indian guy, much tighter than average player, hasnít done much calling post-flop, I havenít seem him raise in any street

SB - around 50 years old, Asian guy, I donít have a good read, he seems slightly tighter than average player

BTN - around 50 years old, white guy, reg, he seems slightly tighter than average player, he raises 66+ KQo+ pre, bets draws on flop, but other than that not really aggressive post-flop

CO - me

1 EP limps, 1 MP limps, HJ limps, I look down at 6d 4d.

I call and everyone else calls/checks including SB.

Flop (7 players, $42): Qd 5h 5d

SB bets $50, 3 folds, HJ calls $50, I call, and BTN folds.

Turn (3 players, $142): Qd 5h 5d Kd

SB bets $100, HJ folds.

I go all-in for $644.

LOL.

I just got back into poker so I have not been playing that well. Yes, I know. This is pure spew.

I put him on a 5 but that does not make sense because he probably wouldíve checked the turn. Also, it seems like most players are checking on the flop to trap.

Anyways, he immediately goes into the tank. He lays out all his chips including his green chips ($25) in six stacks of $100 so he realizes he will have like $50 left if he calls. He hems and haws for about three minutes, just looking at the board. It was weird. He wouldnít even look at me.

Then, while looking at the board, he flips over his cards: 9d 7d.

In my head Iím like, ďOh sh*t!Ē

But fortunately, my immediate reaction afterwards was to look away from him and the board to not give any tells, watch the basketball game, and act really bored, like I couldnít care less what he did. And within a second, I actually felt that way.

I donít know where that comes from but I really was like ďOh well. Iím drawing dead. Might as well watch the game. Live and learn. I played this hand like a donkey but Iím going to work hard to get better.Ē

I have over 100K hands of poker online (mostly limit holdem way back in the day, around 90K hands) so I guess Iíve gotten used to not giving a crap about the money.

He tanks for two more minutes. Then, he folds while saying, ďHe only bets big with the nuts.Ē

I started this table with a $100 buy-in, which shrunk to $50. So, he saw me play super tight for a while since I was short stacked. Iím guessing thatís why he thought I had a huge hand. Maybe my bored disposition had something to do with it too.

I dunno. I really thought he was going to call.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:58 AM   #19
shorn7
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by twitcherroo View Post
The title of your posts takes us already at least to the turn. If you want to limp, go ahead. I wouldn’t Raise.
+1. EZ limp for me. Love these types of hands in LP vs players described. Flop is the easiest fold in the world.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:04 AM   #20
gobbledygeek
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

Was our shove for value or a bluff? It's no surprise at all it turns out to be a bluff and we're simply very lucky we ran into the very bottom of his range which he can fold some of the time.

GimoG
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:00 PM   #21
acepokerblog
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3 Small Flush Draw on Paired Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Was our shove for value or a bluff? It's no surprise at all it turns out to be a bluff and we're simply very lucky we ran into the very bottom of his range which he can fold some of the time.

GimoG
For value. I put him on a 5, which is obviously bad hand reading.

Yeah, I got very lucky.
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