PAHWM:

Players
V1: 50 year old chubby Indian Guy
V2: 50 year old chubby white guy
Me: 27 year old TAG white "kid"

Context:
8 handed $1/$3 home game playing pretty loosey goosey & splashy, but nothing too OOL.

I played a very big hand with these two villains RIGHT before this, I'll post that one below b/c I think it helps add context.


Pre:
3 limps to me in SB I make it $25 w QQ, BB (V1) cold calls and UTG (V2) limper calls.
Pot: $78

Flop:
8 7 3 r . I cbet $50, BB calls, UTG raises to $175. This is a big raise for this point in the game, but I can't fold. I call. Then BB back jams for $325 on top ($500 total).
Pot: $1,125ish?

UTG essentially snap calls with about $400 behind. So it's up to me to call $325 more, but really it's for $725 more b/c UTG still has $400 behind.

WWYD?

Prior Hand:

Pre Flop:
Straddle to $6 in play, I make it $25 w KQo and both villains above call IP to me.
Pot: $81

Flop:
Q 10 3 . I'm first to act and cbet $45 and they both call.
Pot: $225

Turn:
Q 10 3, 5x. I bet $125 , they both call. i feel I'm definitely ahead of both of their ranges at this point. V2 feels like he's drawing. V1 has about $500 and so do I, but V2 only has $120 behind
Pot: $600


River
Q 10 3, 5x, 8x. I hate the play, but I blocker bet like $60, V1 calls, and V2 jams it in for $50 more . Of course he has J9o but I have to call and so does V1.
Pot: $930

V1 and I both have KQo and V2 does have the J9o and ships it.

V2 had bought in 3 times already and was in for $1.4k, most in game by a lot besides me who was in for $800. He was getting frustrated and just calling $125 on turn w only $110 behind and nailed it. Now he trippled up. And that brings us to the initial hand posted. What would you do with QQ?

Wow, interesting. I probably just shove the QQ. So many draws and 99-JJ in their ranges.

Yes, they could have a set or 78, but I can't fold vs. these guys.

In future, please include pot sizes in all streets. Thanks.

What do you mean so many draws on 8 7 3 r flop ? Seems like 10 9 would be the only draw that someone would get in that deep. Plus, based on my perception of them i'm not that certain they would. UTG would have raised pre w 99 - JJ

Is anyone eating a sandwich?

Pizza

In the history hand, none of the villains went all spazzy with their draws or TP; they simply passively tried to hit / called down.

And yet both villains got very aggressive in this hand. So I would have folded to the first raise. Folding to the *extremely* strong flat/reraise to this action seems trivial, no?

GcluelessNLnoobG

Exactly. Nailed it. This was almost my exact thought process, I didn't think draws were in their range at all TBH. I almost folded to first flop raise, but that seemed a bit toooo nitty.

I was sure that I had V1 beat who back raised, but I was unsure about V2....

I would actually argue the opposite regarding V1 and V2.

In the history hand, V1 flopped TP2K and all he did was passively call down on a very drawy board. Which makes his play here is this hand extremely scary looking.

V2 passively called down with his draw in the history hand so based on that it's unlikely he has a draw here. Although we're unsure of whether he would overplay TP / smaller overpair here (although that means he passively limps JJ-99 to overplay them postflop).

GcluelessNLnoobG

56 and 9T, which people love to play.

Also, they just saw you raise and bet/bet/bet with KQo. Granted, you had top pair, but they might be non-believers.

If I were going to fold QQ, it'd be to the first raise -- that's where you needed to make this decision. Why on earth would you flat if you don't think they are on draws? Or if you think UTG would have raise w/ 99-JJ? What do you beat?

BB flatting and back raising for all-in looks a lot like a draw to me, but maybe he was "trapping."

In future, please stick with V1 and V2, changing from V1/V2 to UTG/BB is very confusing for your readers.

I certainly didn't love the situation calling the initial raise of $175, but I could potentially see V2 overplaying A8ss or some sort of weak value hand and him spazzing. I was going to evaluate based on certain turn cards and how he bet.

But when he snap calls the much larger raise, i think I gain a lot more information.

Also, based on Gobbledygeek analysis , i don't think they play straight draws this strongly at all. He was content to just call 80%+ of his stack in prior hand.

I understand what your saying about the KQo hand earlier, that's why I think V1 just may have been frustrated with losing last hand big and now this potentially.


It was a close spot for sure. I find it very interesting that one of you said to get it in and the other to maybe evne fold after initial raise

GG and I play VERY different games! He would have limped pre with QQ and probably folded KQo on the button with a straddle and limpers

Still respect his winning, though

Ha, honestly, I have limped QQ here (for realz). Not saying I would do that in this spot, just saying I have done it.

But this does bring up a good point (regarding disguising our hand, especially non deep, especially OOP). What do villains put you on? As you do more and more actions, your holdings become more and more obvious. Can you have anything other than an overpair+ given you raised preflop, cbet 3ways and called a big raise with still another person to act behind you? Incredibly unlikely. Is the BB aware of that? Of course he is. And yet he just jammed into you.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Range X flop
Fold flop

What does this mean??

Check range on this flop, and fold to a bet

Haha okay thanks for your input ya'll.

Results:

I didn't put V1 on a lol hand and felt it was much more likely his hand was stronger than V2's.

GcluelesshandreadingnoobG