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Old 09-21-2018, 02:18 PM   #1
cosmo.kramer
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PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

1/3 NL at my local casino. I'm a reg, but I only recognize a couple players at the table. I have never played with either villain though. Standard raises have been between $12 and $20, but overall, the table has been really passive.

H: White guy in his 20s. Been at the table for three hours, and my image right now is LAG.

V1: Older Asian man. Been at the table for a couple hours. Hasn't played a lot of hands, but generally raises when he does. Labeled him as TAG.

V2: Middle-aged Asian man who's not afraid to gamble. Has been chasing draws all night. I think he leans more L/P than LAG, but he's somewhere in the middle.

OTTH:

H UTG ($600)
V1 UTG+1 ($200)
V2 UTG+2 ($400)

H raises to $16 with 67
V1 calls $16
V2 calls $16
Two other LP players call $16

I just showed AQ from EP with the same raise, so I decided to play this hand as well.

Flop ($84) 743

Hero??
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:35 PM   #2
QuadJ
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

Preflop is OK as long as it's rare. Balance is not a big concern at 1/3 but mixing it up occasionally is good.

You got more callers then you would like and only hit the flop moderately well. I would bet $50, you did hit the flop and it's likely to miss everybody. If the turn card doesn't help you then you probably need to get cautious. Check/evaluate is fine also.
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:49 PM   #3
wait
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

If you don't know what to do with this flop then fold pre.
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:06 PM   #4
Javanewt
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

Quote:
Originally Posted by wait View Post
If you don't know what to do with this flop then fold pre.
Who says OP doesn't know what to do? This is a strat forum, not an advice forum. These hands help everyone learn.
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:08 PM   #5
Javanewt
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

I actually check here, because this is the perfect board for an aggressive player to raise you on with all sorts of hands, and I'm not willing to gii with my hand. Lots of scenarios after that, so need to see what happens.
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:25 PM   #6
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

Cbet
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:28 PM   #7
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

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Originally Posted by cosmo.kramer View Post
1/3 NL at my local casino. I'm a reg, but I only recognize a couple players at the table. I have never played with either villain though. Standard raises have been between $12 and $20, but overall, the table has been really passive.

H: White guy in his 20s. Been at the table for three hours, and my image right now is LAG.

V1: Older Asian man. Been at the table for a couple hours. Hasn't played a lot of hands, but generally raises when he does. Labeled him as TAG.

V2: Middle-aged Asian man who's not afraid to gamble. Has been chasing draws all night. I think he leans more L/P than LAG, but he's somewhere in the middle.

OTTH:

H UTG ($600)
V1 UTG+1 ($200)
V2 UTG+2 ($400)

H raises to $16 with 67
V1 calls $16
V2 calls $16
Two other LP players call $16

I just showed AQ from EP with the same raise, so I decided to play this hand as well.

Flop ($84) 743

Hero??
H bets $60. V1 shoves all in for $163. V2 calls $163. Folds to H who owes $103 into $470.

Hero??
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:33 PM   #8
Javanewt
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

You should wait almost a day before posting the second street of a PAHWM to give others time to reply.

This is why I don't like the c-bet. I probably just fold and kick myself for the c-bet. Otherwise, shove and pray. I really dislike flatting.
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:38 PM   #9
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

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Originally Posted by Javanewt View Post
You should wait almost a day before posting the second street of a PAHWM to give others time to reply.

This is why I don't like the c-bet. I probably just fold and kick myself for the c-bet. Otherwise, shove and pray. I really dislike flatting.
Thanks. I'll wait longer to post the next action.
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:01 PM   #10
wait
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

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Originally Posted by Javanewt View Post
Who says OP doesn't know what to do? This is a strat forum, not an advice forum. These hands help everyone learn.
Pipe down bud. The point is if this guy wants to open 76hh he should have a plan. It becomes especially bad when he gets one of the better flops he could and becomes clueless and doesn't know how to proceed. Yea yea that's partially the point of making this thread but the advice still remains.
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:07 PM   #11
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo.kramer View Post
H bets $60. V1 shoves all in for $163. V2 calls $163. Folds to H who owes $103 into $470.

Hero??
snap fold. Also check the flop.
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:38 PM   #12
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PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

I'd not cbet here, we rarely have a good turn to continue with and this doesn't hit our range and it does theirs, so raising is easy for them.

AP on flop after raise, snap folding. We like no turns other than a 5 and maybe a 7


Quote:
Originally Posted by wait View Post
Pipe down bud. The point is if this guy wants to open 76hh he should have a plan. It becomes especially bad when he gets one of the better flops he could and becomes clueless and doesn't know how to proceed. Yea yea that's partially the point of making this thread but the advice still remains.


A) Jav is not a "bud"

B) while I agree with your assessment that OP really doesn't know what he's doing with a low SC and should fold pre (based on the flop/turn actions), you're missing her point. When someone makes a PAHWM, every street is a question, so whether OP does or does not know what to do, flop action is always going to be a question.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:32 PM   #13
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo.kramer View Post
H bets $60. V1 shoves all in for $163. V2 calls $163. Folds to H who owes $103 into $470.
Have to fold now. The flop bet is hoping they all fold or you get heads up. This is way too much action to consider sticking around.

In the likely case one has an over pair and the other a flush draw you are right around the odds you need to call if you get to see both cards but it mostly just gets worse from there. The only way you are getting good odds is in the unlikely case both have flush draws. If one of them flopped a set or straight or even a better 7 you are crushed.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:43 PM   #14
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

I do not mind playing these types of hands from EP on occasion, but there are a few reasons I may have passed in your particular situation.

Suited connectors require a decent amount of fold equity to play profitably. We're going to be loosely connecting with a bunch of flops with these kinds of hands, and we are relying on being able to judiciously barrel our opponents off of their equity when we post-flop. And I am not sure we have enough FE here. You have a LAG image so people are going to be hesitant to give you credit for "having it" and you are OOP to an opponent who is loose and likes to chase his draws.

Not saying this hand is a bad open but just something to think about w/r/t table dynamics.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:53 PM   #15
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

Fold pre. Table is nowhere near deep enough to play this UTG.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:45 PM   #16
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

Quote:
Originally Posted by wait View Post
Pipe down bud. The point is if this guy wants to open 76hh he should have a plan. It becomes especially bad when he gets one of the better flops he could and becomes clueless and doesn't know how to proceed. Yea yea that's partially the point of making this thread but the advice still remains.
why are you acting like a dick? OP is trying to learn. it's a live low stakes strat forum.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:10 PM   #17
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

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Originally Posted by jc315 View Post
why are you acting like a dick? OP is trying to learn. it's a live low stakes strat forum.
Fold pre cause you're bad and don't have a plan for a top percentile flop for the hand is good advice.

The fact OP skipped pre in a PAHWM means he has a big leak cause he thinks it's a good open when it isn't even close. Moreso cause or the cluelessness post.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:14 PM   #18
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

Quote:
Originally Posted by wait View Post
Pipe down bud. The point is if this guy wants to open 76hh he should have a plan. It becomes especially bad when he gets one of the better flops he could and becomes clueless and doesn't know how to proceed. Yea yea that's partially the point of making this thread but the advice still remains.
Jeez, you're assuming that he doesn't have a plan. Just because someone posts a hand on 2+2 doesn't mean they didn't have a plan. It just means they want to get other people's thoughts on the spot they ended up in.
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:04 PM   #19
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

Quote:
Originally Posted by wait View Post
If you don't know what to do with this flop then fold pre.
Basically this.

Grunch.

Flop snap check. Not close
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:06 PM   #20
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

Quote:
Originally Posted by wait View Post
Fold pre cause you're bad and don't have a plan for a top percentile flop for the hand is good advice.

The fact OP skipped pre in a PAHWM means he has a big leak cause he thinks it's a good open when it isn't even close. Moreso cause or the cluelessness post.
This is quite extreme and mean lol, but he has a very good point.
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:01 AM   #21
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

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Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
This is quite extreme and mean lol, but he has a very good point.
not really. what would you tell someone who says "i want to get better at postflop play. i think i played a hand poorly, what should i do?" you would recommend them talk to friends who are better at poker and if you are so inclined, you would recommend some software.

that's what OP is doing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wait View Post
Fold pre cause you're bad and don't have a plan for a top percentile flop for the hand is good advice.

The fact OP skipped pre in a PAHWM means he has a big leak cause he thinks it's a good open when it isn't even close. Moreso cause or the cluelessness post.
you can give good advice and still be a dick. the guy thinks opening 67s from UTG here is standard, and you just berate and belittle OP to make yourself feel like a wizard. what's the point of coming on a LLSNL?

based on your posts, it sounds like you are advocating that this is an easy bet because it is a top percentile flop for us? you are already seeing a decent # of players who disagree. I think flop plays much better as a check call. in general i think we should have a very tight betting range 4-way into a flop with this texture.
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:43 AM   #22
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

You know how you can have a tight betting range here? By not opening 76s UTG with multiple 50 BB stacks behind.
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Old 09-22-2018, 07:39 AM   #23
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
You know how you can have a tight betting range here? By not opening 76s UTG with multiple 50 BB stacks behind.
Honestly, 76s is not the problem. The problem would be 75s, 86s, 85s, 74s, 87o. If you really stick to just 76s, 87s, 98s, T9s in your UTG opening range and none of the wannabe connectors, then your range is gonna be just fine.
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Old 09-22-2018, 02:33 PM   #24
cosmo.kramer
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

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Originally Posted by QuadJ View Post
Preflop is OK as long as it's rare. Balance is not a big concern at 1/3 but mixing it up occasionally is good.

You got more callers then you would like and only hit the flop moderately well. I would bet $50, you did hit the flop and it's likely to miss everybody. If the turn card doesn't help you then you probably need to get cautious. Check/evaluate is fine also.
I don't open this type of hand often.

My plan was to cbet if I hit the flop in any meaningful way, and it did. I'd bet an overpair the exact same way. I think a check/call removes the big overpairs from my range, but maybe that's not true?

Thanks for the help.
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Old 09-22-2018, 02:34 PM   #25
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Re: PAHWM - 1/3 NL: SC in EP

Quote:
Originally Posted by wait View Post
If you don't know what to do with this flop then fold pre.
What would you do on this flop?
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