Ha, can't recall if I've ever done a PAHWM. Wasn't very happy that I ended up playing a big pot with a small hand, wondering if there were better choices to be made.

1/3 NL, 10 handed

BB ($300): Late 50s white guy, never played with him before, overall seems passive ABC on the loose side. Early on he 3bet a young guys open then 5bet jammed with KK and was disgusted with the young guy for playing (and hitting) AK that way. Rebought for the maximum $300 right after the hit and has been yo-yoing a little bit. Probably doesn't have much view of Hero other than I haven't been involved in very many pots, and the one hand I played against him I raised the flop with my set, checked back a bad turn 3way, and sigh called his river bet (my set beating his two pair on a 4-to-a-straight board).

UTG+1 (covers): Late 50s white guy, loose preflop and postflop, chasey, long time loser in the game although at the same time he knows what is going on, fairly ABC non-bluffy. Views Hero as mostly nittish, and yet at same time still pays off (so I guess there must be some doubt in his mind from time to time whether I actually have it). Earlier he called a flop donk with a gutshot, I raise, a coldcall, and he calls, explaining later he knew I had a set (which I did) but the coldcall priced him in to chase his gutshot (lol with his remaining stacksize).

MP1 (covers): Late 50s white guy, almost identical to UTG+1 in pretty much every way.

Hero (LJ, $350): Pretty much only been involved in one hand so far, passively playing a flopped set on turn/river and winning. Tight to nittish image.

CO ($200): Mid 50s white guy, very loose and gambooley, can bluff / spew.

Button (covers): Yet another late 50s white guy, similar to the rest except looser and gamblooier and much more capable of making moves / spewing.


Preflop (10 players): Hero is LJ with K J

UTG+1 limps, MP1 limps, Hero (with tight HJ/SB but loose CO and Button behind)...

GcluelessPAHWMnoobG

i would overlimp. dont really wanna iso raise and have the CO and button call

Yup. Over limping 100% of the time here.

On another note, holy crap everyone in your game is old.

im new to this whole forum thing btw. how can you tellwhen someone has relpied? do you just have to refresh the page constanly?

Think at this point I was the second youngest at the table and second bestest looking.

GkidintheSBhadmeonbothcountsG

I prefer an iso

Sizing suggestion? Will be difficult to do at this table with loose CO/Button behind me, if either of those guys call, we'll be going 4way to the flop.

But I do have a nit image with some limped dead money. With a $350 stack, I could go 10% to $35 and it's possible I get HU. Although have I limited my opponent's hand to one that is likely better than mine / risked to much to win too little?

GcluelessisonoobG

I almost always raise here, but given the specific table conditions, I guess a limp is ok.

If I'm raising, it's $21-$24. We are ok with almost any outcome. This hand plays well multi-way, heads up. Pretty much any situation is good for us other than a 3-bet pre.

20

I'd raise to $23. If the players behind you are calling too wide, then that's all the more reason to raise. Make them commit $23 with weaker hands. You'll be ahead of their calling range with a hand that flops well. And by raising you lower the SPR, which reduces their positional advantage. If they're calling too wide, add high cards (like these) to your iso range and limp with your small suited connectors and small pairs.

You have a great hand to play poker with even if it goes multi way. But you have a better chance of getting position if you isolate. Also, if you're not isolating with KJs, then you're basically not isolating with anything except absolute premiums. I think that's leaving money on the table. These guys play ABC poker. You should be able to win a lot of pots just by c-betting dry flops after you isolate.

I prefer to raise here if CO/Btn aren't 3! happy and try to play two 'fairly abc non-bluffy' loose opponents in position. Make it $15-20.

The threat of domination should be minimal since at least one of the villains should have raised with a decent % of KQ+/AJ.

No option is terrible here. Stack sizes and hand strength make limp/calling awkward and limp/folding on a regular basis is a leak. Raising can work but if it doesn't isolate hero will often be stuck in a marginal situation with a low SPR. If it does get hero heads up there is a real chance hero is facing a hand that dominates hero, leaving a garbage flop and a c-bet the best situation. Giving neither limping or raising is real attractive then folding is fine. Stacks are not deep, hero doesn't really want to see a flop in every meh situation.

If the chance of getting raised is high then fold>raise>limp
If the chance of getting raised is moderate then limp>raise>fold
If the chance of getting raised is low then then limp>raise

I'm going to be that guy.

KJs is a top 9% starting hand. It flops strong pairs and strong draws, which makes it a great hand both HU and multi-way. Under what definition would this be considered a "little hand?"

$20 pre. Next...

Aren't we happier with a big SPR for this hand than a little SPR? The smaller the SPR, the more we're playing TP type poker, where this hand isn't exactly a monster. The bigger the SPR, the more we're playing it for it's flush/straight potential where it excels at.

At least, that's my thinking.

@ SABR, by "little hand" I meant further into the HH (where I think I end up playing too big a pot with what ends up being too little a hand).

GcluelesspreflopnoobG

You're not always going to end up with the perfect SPR for your hand, and trying to do so in hopes of making every decision as easy as possible will lead to sub-optimal decisions.

Just raise because you clearly have an equity edge with KJs vs two loose limpers so far, but want to discourage the IP players from getting into the pot too cheaply, and don't raise so much that it becomes very hard for people to call you (don't overplay your hand for more than it's worth).

This hand also has high-hand value. It flops top pair good kicker a lot. This is particularly the case when you think the players behind you are calling light (as you say they are). They'll have a lot of TJ, 9J, QJ, KT, K9, J8, even K8s and K7s -- hands that you dominate. You're only in real bad shape against AK, AJ, and KQ, and some percentage of AK will 3bet allowing you to get away preflop.

Think of it this way: if you limp and the flop comes K78 with a spade draw, are you happier out of position with deep stacks or out of position with shallow stacks? Even if you flop your draw (say 752 with two diamonds), you'll have easier decisions out of position with a small SPR.

Not to mention the fact that you give up the chance to c-bet if you limp and the board comes out, say, Q72r. Remember, most players are going to miss most flops.

Happier raising (printing) and getting limpcallcheckfolds from UTG, MP (and BB). Your pair equity just doesn't diminish that greatly against these players whose limping ranges are near identical to their limp-calling ranges. It's also a huge benefit to control the hand and immediately have stations with trash ranges playing the "beat top pair" game in their own minds... meaning that you can often count on their lines/sizing to be super face up because you raised/have position/have initiative which also allows you to get to SD at will/well.

Clear raise, not sure about 1/3 sizing but I'd go 18 or so

ten whole dollars in the middle you can win outright, if not your hand plays fine with initiative

Raise because KJs is a very good hand and you are likely to get called by worse. $20 is good. It's a raise read less and even more of a raise with our reads on the table.

FWIW, a $20 raise is going to go 5+ ways at this table. Does that change anything in the raiser's camp, or are you cool going to a $100 flop with $330 behind?

GcluelesspreflopnoobG

This!

This is an underrated reason for raising. Even if The limpers only fold like 20% of the time, there's huge value in taking down dead money preflop. In my experience, most 1/3 players have at least some limp-fold range, even if they're usually limp-calling.

In California this is even more true, since there's a $5 drop once the flop is dealt.

Loving it with a hand that can flop two top pairs and 8+ out draws.

I stoved KJs against 4 ATC random hands, where it sucks up a decent 31% equity (whereas the other 4 ATC random hands suck up 17% equity each). So definitely more than it's fair share of equity.

However, that's against ATC random hands, and while that table is very loose a raise will obviously drop the pure junk hands from the mix, in which case I'm sure our equity advantage becomes quite a lot thinner. And all that is for preflop, for just 6% of our stacks.

For those who are raising, are you raising big enough to thin the field (i.e. $35) or are you perfectly cool with a $20 raise seeing a 5way flop?

GcluelesspreflopraisingnoobG

What about the times we flop one pair (our most likely flop)?

GcluelessfloppingnoobG

yes it definitely changes things.

instead of raising to 20 raise to 28 or 30 if you think it will go heads up or three ways at most.

PainecB