1/3 Live No Limit Holdem around 2AM

-V in question, as tilted, always talks about giving action and playing tough. He is late 30s white guy who plays loose but wins in this game through thinking and aggression. Recent hand history with this player is I was 3bet pre-flop by him and called w/ JJ along with two other callers. Board was JTx rainbow and he open shoved for a little over pot and had KQss. Stack is $270

H is young 20s playing somewhere between TAG and LAG but probably closer to LAG in this specific session. Me and V have been playing for around 5 hours and he is around even and I am up a bit. Stack is $380

7 handed (2 people sitting out)

Pre: 2 folds and H has J9 and makes it $12 which is standard for me, folds to V in BB who calls

Flop($25): 759 V checks,, H should ????

Bet for value

In a vacuum though i’d check otf but against an actioney player snap betting and looking to gii

Standard bet for value. Make it 15.

H settles on a bet of $16. V thinks for a bit and decides on a call.

Turn ($57) 759T V cks, H should???

Imagine ever checking here

I probably check now. The river will play itself, the only really tricky card is another 9.

I think I check behind for pot control.

My logic at the time here was I most likely still have the best hand, aside from a few gutters coming in. I did not want to check back and have a 6 or 8 come off and get blown off. And that I really don't think I get check raised here a lot. Checking most of the time, but sometimes betting.

H bets $35, and V thinks for about 10 seconds and makes it $70, H should??

Call the min bud

A call leaves less than a PSB for river. His min C/R seems pretty weak on a drawy board. I think a value hand is more likely to either lead turn or C/R larger. If Hero shoves, could fold the weaker end of his range.

Call and evaluate river. I’d note the BD spade draw and play accordingly.

Not sure where our position is preflop but with this guy in the BB I'm not convinced we want to be building a big pot (even in position). I'd probably even just open limp this on the Button (so we can call a raise if we see fit). At tables against ABC fit/folders raising makes a lot more sense, but here not as much (nor does getting into an epeening war with arguably the only other winning player at the table).

I think I would mostly bet the flop. We should have decent hand equity, we can handle being played back and we can likely give ourselves turn options (such as checking back to showdown / bluffcatch / bink). I'd probably go 1/2 PSB and go from there. I don't hate checking back either against this guy but think our hand might be too strong for that.

ETA: On the turn I'd check back. We'd hate to get check/raised and possibly blown off our draw, and we setup a super easy bluffcatcher UI on the river with our showdownable hand.

ETA: As played, we're getting over 4:1 to chase our flush draw + gutshot, so definitely not folding. Against this guy I guess it's possible we have some FE to a check/raise but against most we don't, plus we have a showdownable hand to boot (he may just check the river), so I just call. We're fortunate he gave us a great price.

GcluelessNLnoobG

River ($197): 759TJ V thinks for a little bit and jams for ~$170, H should ???

In most pots where I'm bet/betting the flop/turn and the flop flush draw busts but a 4-to-a-straight comes in, I've concluded that I should almost always be calling big river bets (as almost everyone apart from the nittiest of ABC nits will use this opportunity to bluff their busted flush draw). Yes, sometimes they will have backed into the straight (which is really the only hand they are repping here as hands as strong as sets often just check to showdown on these scary boards) but more often than not it is a whiffed flush draw.

This hand is slightly different given he just wasn't check/calling down (he could have been check/raising the made straight on the turn) plus we block some of his flush combos he can have (although stuff like KQhh got there) so it's not as clear cut in this case. Overall, he's aggressive and making a bet that is begging for a fold on this board, plus it's possible he's turning a weaker hand into a bluff, so not a great spot but I might lean to a call.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Oof. I mean, he's repping such a thin range of 8x combos. The only hands that really make sense are J8 and then Q8,K8,A8,KQ of spades. J8 fits the pattern a bit more than the rest due to the weird bet sizing on the turn -- also there are 12 combos of J8 he could have.

At the same time, what possible bluffs could he have here? Maybe T8s or 98s. But again these seem unlikely. Why would he choose to raise only on the turn and not the flop? I also think he would often play his pair+draws a little slower, given that these hands have some showdown value. I guess A6, A7, QJ, KJ of spades are possible. But again, such weird bet-sizing on the turn? There aren't more than 12 combos of possible bluffs, and I wouldn't even give each combo a 100% weight.

Due to the above I would weight his turn min-raising range heavily towards the nuts and monster draws (many of which completed on the river). So fold.

Hard to imagine a made hand on the turn taking this line, risking a check through on a drawing board. Maybe 8s6s/8h6h/Js8s?

Combos of 87s/98s are blocked, nevertheless if you think there are unsuited combos in his range, might be a fold. Otherwise, I’d make the call given the V history.

Villain probably has a lot more 8x here than you'd expect.

Highly considering checking flop.

AP, def check/call turn.

River I'm often going to fold as 4 liners are so under bluffed in these games. If we know villain is capable we can call though since we block a fair amount of the 8s and don't block spades.

H ended up in the tank for some time, didnt like that we blocked hearts and trying to put him on a hand he calls flop with then takes this line. Very close to folding but called last minute and villain shows us 44.

- He says the good call and all that rolling his eyes etc. But I am not sure it is a good call, should we really be calling here if we block heart draws and he is in the BB defending wide? Then again other than 88 and KQs this is gonna be pretty high up in my range of opening here. Idk not sure about this one.

Clear flop bet against a BB defending range of ~20% with nutted hands like JJ-AA, AKs re-raising. Turn, I would check. Our hand is still probably the best, but V has enough odds to call most bets.

My analysis on Flopzilla, for those who have it

[Flopzilla v1.8.5]
[Use Ctrl+I to import into Flopzilla]
[www.flopzilla.com ]
[jbTcGhqpfcm1kEd+WLumBcqblNNXAXTlqnAS6WFkzZbpO+jNIf]
[AgFSpZ7qmtuPX+eoB64VH75bkXkEVASaX7g5CLWT+cprh8fZ42]
[tClS4tRsviukMGXL8ApM2qDCweJP2utjsCU1XdpcEO2H1sncoG]
[qTkNB0OG31MtJftQnHyXKUXWfnTXU9jdjlAe+R619Rp3J+SVR2]
[7TXamGY52sQAhZ6fkMNgNWLJlYvJmzopZeE1F8J9sGuTl0O5Nb]
[J9phlA5Q8Jx1iDRW4KTKc1twt]


As played, I would fold to a river shove, as people are not bluffing enough live small stakes in this spot. Based on the history, you could make the call.

Question to the OP and people in the thread. If the river is a brick instead of J, what would we do here?