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Old 06-26-2018, 05:11 PM   #1
SwolyswoND
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PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

Hero: (UTG) mid 30s WG reg. Known in this room as a winning LAG, and not really playing any differently in this session.

Table has seen Hero play one hand of note. ES $350ish, folded to Hero who opened JTs in HJ to $15. Fishy rec in CO calls, rest fold. Flop AK7r. Hero cbets $20 targeting underpairs, Fish calls. Turn Q completing rainbow, now targeting the top of fish's range, H knows he likely can't stack fish with a b/b/b line, chooses to take a c/c turn, c/jam river line. Fish bets $50, H calls. River Ace (barf). H bets $75 to target AJ/AT, fish jams, H folds. Fish shows AQ.

V1: (BB) early 20s WG, one of the more solid players at the table. Capable of widening his 3! range when appropriate. Aggressive post. Haven't noticed any significant leaks. One HH of note against this V in a prior session: 750 deep, button straddle was on for 6, MP makes it $25. Hero 3! AKdd to $75 from HJ. V makes it $180 on BTN. Hero considers all three options and eventually decides to jam with the nut blocker hand, fully believing all combos of JJ/QQ to be in V's range. V tanks forever and ultimately calls with KK which ultimately holds, he fastrolls and Hero mucks without showing.


Effective stacks: ~$700

OTTH

Hero opens to $15 with black QQ. Folds to V in BB who raises to $45.

Hero?
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Old 06-26-2018, 05:49 PM   #2
gobbledygeek
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

I just flat, but that's me. Pretty sure we mostly hate life if we 4bet and get 5bet and then have to sacrifice our setmining equity in position. Let's just see a flop in position and go from there.

Gimo,butIalsosuckatdeepstackandplayextremelypassiv elythisdeepG
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Old 06-26-2018, 06:21 PM   #3
browni3141
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

Overbet the turn in the first hand and why on earth are you leading river? The hands you’re targeting are betting.

Call QQ. His BB vs. UTG range should be pretty strong.
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Old 06-26-2018, 06:48 PM   #4
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

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Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
Overbet the turn in the first hand and why on earth are you leading river? The hands you’re targeting are betting.

Call QQ. His BB vs. UTG range should be pretty strong.
+1
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Old 06-26-2018, 06:49 PM   #5
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
I just flat, but that's me. Pretty sure we mostly hate life if we 4bet and get 5bet and then have to sacrifice our setmining equity in position. Let's just see a flop in position and go from there.

Gimo,butIalsosuckatdeepstackandplayextremelypassiv elythisdeepG
na this is correct imo. UTG vs BB we don't want to be 4betting QQ 350 bb deep. BTN vs BB this is a slam dunk 4bet
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:08 PM   #6
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

What in the world are you doing h1?

Bet turn, bet river.

Whyare you donking river?

Ap, very std flat. Dont 4b
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:41 PM   #7
SwolyswoND
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

I explained my reasoning for hand 1 in the OP, but to reiterate:

I opted for a c/c, c/r river line because the SPR was such that I was unlikely to stack V with a b/b/b line.

On river, if I don’t lead and he bets, are we jamming? That seems like a great way to only get called by better. And c/c seems insanely weak. He’s likely to check behind hands like Qx but might call a small bet because my line looks weird. By b/f I also get to set the price because he’s never ever raising less than a boat, right?
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:58 PM   #8
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

H1 Check call riv isn’t weak it’s part of a sound strategy when the board pairs. His check backs don’t call a bet, his better hands always raise a bet, so target his bets via ck call - he has more and you can win showdown more often.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:12 PM   #9
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

Cawl
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:32 AM   #10
SwolyswoND
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

Moving along, as I think preflop is not that difficult:

Hero opens to $15 with black QQ. Folds to V in BB who raises to $45. Hero calls.

Flop ($90) 9 7 5

V noticeably checks his hole cards, then bets $40. Hero?
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:42 AM   #11
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

I'm just calling here and my plan for the rest of the hand is to get to showdown cheaply unless 4 diamonds or A/K hit the board.
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:56 AM   #12
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

I'm just calling. Raise/fold or raise/GII both seem bad.
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:52 AM   #13
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

Yeah this seems easy so far. Looking forward to Qd Ad runout.
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:59 AM   #14
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

On the flop, I probably just call again. I don't have a huge hand, it's very unlikely to improve, so I'm not looking to build a huge pot and start playing for huge stacks. Let's just see the turn card / action and use our position to figure out what to do from there.

GcallingstationG
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Old 06-27-2018, 12:07 PM   #15
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Wink Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

Call but realize most of the time you are drawing to hit a ,6,8, or 9.

Unless a black A/K comes on the turn or it goes something dumb like deuce deuce you should win this hand w/o sd like every time.
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Old 06-27-2018, 12:13 PM   #16
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Call but realize most of the time you are drawing to hit a ,6,8, or 9.

Unless a black A/K comes on the turn or it goes something dumb like deuce deuce you should win this hand w/o sd like every time.
I'd like to expand on this. Is our approach that we plan to turn our QQ into a bluff on later streets because our range is more uncapped than V's? And we should do so on later streets, not the flop, because...? (Not questioning that stance, just would like to spell out the reasoning)
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Old 06-27-2018, 01:45 PM   #17
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

You sure you can't spot any leaks in villains game?

Raise/call flop both seem fine
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:29 PM   #18
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

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You sure you can't spot any leaks in villains game?
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:48 PM   #19
SwolyswoND
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

What leak of V are you both referring to? Checking his cards?
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Old 06-27-2018, 06:08 PM   #20
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

call, agreed with above lets get to the obvious Qd turn
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:50 PM   #21
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

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Originally Posted by SwolyswoND View Post
What leak of V are you both referring to? Checking his cards?
Way too small 3b sizing deep oop esp if he has bluffs. IP should peel everything, or at least I would.

Flop bet.
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:28 PM   #22
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

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Originally Posted by SwolyswoND View Post
I'd like to expand on this. Is our approach that we plan to turn our QQ into a bluff on later streets because our range is more uncapped than V's? And we should do so on later streets, not the flop, because...? (Not questioning that stance, just would like to spell out the reasoning)
The best kind of fear is the kind that develops within.

If we raise now we rep less hands (99,77,55 specifically) and we bloat a pot without much leeway. We also re-open action.

When we want to take pots down without showdown we want as much money as possible behind otr.

So when you call several things happen. Fear manifests. More bad cards roll off than good (from villains POV). Money stays behind for big river bluffs.

Also sometimes we simply have the best hand. So calling makes more sense.

But really, there are just so many great turn cards, and we want to see them. When we call we have 55/66/77/88/99/TT/JJ/QQ, some 9x, Broadway diamonds, AT+ diamonds, etc. That range is going to be nutted by the river like 90% of the time.
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:26 PM   #23
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

Clear call on the flop. QQ is almost the nut low one pair hand to put in a raising range. QQ is too big of a pair to benefit much from a protection raise, and too small to get value from many hands. Even if he has a hand like AJdd we are basically flipping.

I think Avaritia makes a good point as well that I didn’t initially consider. There are going to be a lot of runouts that will be much better for our range than his range, or at least we will have more nutted hands in our range than he will.
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:18 AM   #24
SwolyswoND
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

NEXT ACTION

Hero opens to $15 with black QQ. Folds to V in BB who raises to $45. Hero calls.

Flop ($90) 9 7 5

V noticeably checks his hole cards, then bets $40. Hero calls.

Turn ($170) 6

V thinks about 10 seconds, then checks.

Hero?
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:43 AM   #25
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Re: PAHWM: 1/3, 200+bb deep against solid V, QQ gets 3bet pre

I just give him a terrible price to continue with his AAx, KKx and AKx combos and go $200-225 setting up the perception of a river shove.

We are turning our hand into a bluff obviously.
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