^those, easy flat.

If utg jams, I'm not folding.

Trivial call. You have way to many outs to fold but you probably need to hit something to win. The situation if UTG shoves would take some math, and depends on what SB does. Pot odds are likely to look good but hero could be drawing very thin if he is facing a set/two pair and a big draw.

Call flop. Call turn. Shoulda raised pre.

Call turn. So far very little interesting in this hand

So you can play a bigger pot OOP with TP3K instead of a smaller one? Great logic...

Yes let's turn a hand with great showdown value (and good backdoor potential) into a bluff and make worse hands fold. Great logic again.

Lol dear lord you are awful.

Call again. Nothing interesting so far.

i'm bored

this. im generally not a fan of raising TPGK into multiple players but i think here you have to. you almost certainly have the best hand now but if multiple players call behind, you will likely lose the hand and possibly even get bluffed on a later street. if they all fold, its still a win.

the thing is T8 is another hand we're afraid of. thats 28 combos of open enders possible. if we flat we allow multiple villains to stay in 9x and gut shots and then we're left guessing on later streets against multiple players. against 1 or 2 players, you should flat here, but with that many people i think a raise is in order

point 1- any ace, king, 9, 7, 8 or even gut shots is bad for us.

point 2-he's saying that we likely have the best hand but that even if we hit a Q, someone could have KT or T8. even if we hit another jack, someone could boat up. by raising flop, we get value from draws and can safely fold to a reraise against two pairs+.

point 3-this hand is going to be hard to play regardless espeically OOP. we're likely ahead now, but with a bet and 2 calls behind us, we will likely get outdrawn.


there are merits to raising or flatting. i think either is fine

we're playing to win money, not to win as many pots as possible

they aren't always calling behind, and even if they are 100% to do so, being likely to lose is not a reason to raise when calling gives us the odds that this "bad situation you want to avoid" gives us

ok, sorry people are saying hand isn't interesting, I thought it was generating some decent discussion. I'll get on with it.

Hero calls $20. UTG raises to $60. SB tank folds. Hero asks for a count of what he has behind, it's $49.

Hand is not interesting at all. Even if he has exactly QT here which is slightly unlikely because you have a Q also, you have 22% equity and need something like 26% or 27% equity which I think he will also raise two pair then your T is also good as an out. so I **** it call and expect him to never fold on the river if I hit, also the fact that I can potentially make my stack bigger for future pots makes this +EV ainec.

Preflop was interesting because you can make a good case for both flatting and raising. After that it has been pure call down and see if you hit territory. Hand is too good to fold but not good enough to raise. You moved from hoping to get heads up with SB to targeting both when your hand improved to a fairly big draw on turn, but that doesn't change the right play.

Looks like $40 to win $132. Getting those kind of odds your draw is still to good to fold but there is no point in putting him in now either. You have exactly 0 FE, and you still need to hit something to win. He might fold if the flush comes in, but the money should go in if you improve any other way. Of course, you won't have close to the nuts if you improve any other way, but I'm figuring the straight is unlikely here and catching two pair/trips is enough of a toss up that you can't possibly fold with those pot odds.

I'm guessing river is As, villain is openjamming and OP youre going to ask us whether or not to call. Come on OP

Edit: turn is pretty interesting though, utg probably never bluffs though your flush and straightdraws are most likely live. I didn't do the maths but its probably a fold, in game i (when tilted) do flat here sometimes and bink rivers

How is this a fold? We have to assume the rest is going in on the river no matter what. If a spade hits, you'll almost always see these guys grumble about their bad luck as they slide the rest of their chips in. Right now it's $40 to win $132. V's stack is >$28, and you have the luxury of check folding a brick river. There is a small chance that a flush is RIO and a straight is a chop, but I think that's offset by 2p, trips, and the J winning unimproved to be a wash without doing some serious math.

If nothing else, showing down your hand will be good for your gambooly image in what is likely a pretty neutral spot.

I think it's interesting because of how it's turning out and the possible action behind. As you can tell from the comments, there's plenty of disagreement on the proper line here.

Now we have an interesting spot, imo. The call is standard, then we have the unexpected. I don't completely agree with QuadJ that we have zero FE here, but I don't think we need necessarily need any FE. Based on your read from the OP, I can see him being polarized at least part of the time. Combining his air vs our pair/12 outs, calling is +EV. I might even convince myself that I'm already ahead and shove to avoid RIO when our spade does hit.

If we were deep, this would have been fairly interesting as it opens up more debate.
So far, so good. You can call

Just call, villain never folds river even if everything gets there, so it is very close to +EV if behind. If our spade draw is beat, he isn't folding to a turn shove as stated above.

it's not interesting at all, just shove and get the monies in and make sure you top off when you don't bink

congratulate UTG on a hand well played and move on

What does shoving accomplish? What advantage does it give you over calling? This is autopilot thinking and not good.

lol at folding any river, we are ahead of a lot of hands and guys who got 120 in front of them will fold sometimes

i'm super excited to gii here, if he doubles up it makes the game better and you'll win it back, just make sure you have 25-50BI's in the tank

I'm not against either a shove or a call here, but here are my thoughts on the benefits of shoving...I'd love your input because this may be a big leak in my game. Shoving maximizes what micro amount of FE we have (if any). What river card has to hit that we're not calling $49 getting 3.5:1? There are a ton of cards that I would certainly call OTR...any spade/K/Q/J are snap called and any rag seems reasonable. If we're beat when those hit I'm calling it a cooler and moving on. If he's capable of folding any spade or counterfeited two pair, I'd rather shove now and remove RIO.

I never advocated folding OTR.

How about a range for SB when he leads the turn?

How about a range for UTG when he raises, but does not shove, the turn?