I prefer raising the button pre if I'm going to play it, but if you think even $25 will go multi way, I guess the limp is ok since we're otb. It's only two dollars in a deep 1/2 game.

When it gets raised from the BB and gets 5 callers, I can understand the call. It's only $15 more to see a flop otb in a big multiway pot, The only problem is we don't have a hand that plays good multiway but with these players I think it's marginally ok.

I don't think this flop looks so good when the original raiser leads out into 6 players on a monotone board. At best, we're about 38% vs a bare A or even kings with a K. If he has JJ we're about 40%. Any made flush we're down to like 6% equity. Practically drawing dead to two outs.

I think the problem is any club kills our action and reduces IO. I don't know how much FE we have vs the BB after he leads out into almost the whole table on that flop but I don't really like calling as much as raising since he's likely to continue especially since he "seems semi-competent if not quite good" but we didn't call pre twice to fold the flop with a SFD right? Raising to 125 would gives us a free card ott. Not calling if he 3bets.

If I'm betting the turn I'm betting much more than $75 if not possibly jamming. Their ranges are narrowed down to drawing hands or over pairs.

I am with you (except for pre-flop which i think we will just agree to disagree on). And it was easily the worst hand I played all day (thankfully).

I post hands here to get ripped on my play. Only way to improve and I respect your opinion greatly so thanks.

Against a bare Ac we are about 67%. Where did you get 38%?

We are closer to 45% vs any set
We are about 55% vs J9
We are about 50/50 vs JT (including equity for chops)
We are about 65% vs AA without Ac and still 40% even if he has AcAx

The only thing that crushes us is a made flush. I just dont see how you can do anything but shove this flop and use max FE to go with our sizeable equity if we get called.

Bolded is a great point and one I didn't give enough weight too primarily because I thought most of any value I would get would come from a str8 and not hitting a two outer vs the naked Aor K However, I thought we had enough equity overall vs their combined range to continue for $25 but not r/f the flop. This could be a huge leak for me but I hate getting 3! off hands IP where (1) we could be ahead (I know small), (2) we have a combo draw and (3) against players who likely will call large bets with one pair. So while $125 could very well give us a free card (hell might take it down who knows), I wasn't prepared to fold and that is another reason why I flatted. Again not saying great thinking but that was my process at the time.

Yeah. Crap when you put it this way it is even more clear to me that shoving/living with it is the best choice. Given that V2 also called, are you at all concerned about getting called in 2 spots (thereby making our equity over lower) or is that just so unlikely you don't consider it?

Well if they both call its going to be a monster pot and the total amount of equity you have is most likely going to still be higher than the percentage of the money you are putting into the pot (unless one has a flush already) so Im fine with it.

You will win less often but win a lot more money when you do win. If youre not OK with that I would prefer to fold the flop more than any other play.

if he 3bets, he's likely way ahead though.

I did it quickly in my head, I guess I forgot we had a pair.

Regarding the jam otf, I would think his range is strong since a good player lead out into 6 players on that flop.

OK thanks. That makes sense.

He led $25 into a $116 pot. I would say his range is probably weak, not strong.

The $25 Donk? (who raised PF again?) bet is a 'weak now' strong later type of blocker bet OR a nutted hand trying to reel in some chips by looking weak.

I think you are both right on 'strong', it's just a matter of is he strong now already or is he trying to draw to the strong. Either way we are crushed or flipping against the range ... that's why we would shove the Flop and not raise the Flop in order to create any hope of fold equity against the flipping range.

More sayings ...

Young ram to dad .. "Let's run down the mountain and catch that sheep."
Dad to young ram .. ."Let's 'walk' down the mountain and catch them all."

This is not a 'running' hand IMO .. you might end up getting your horns bashed in from a ram that already 'caught' the sheep. GL

One thing I would add is that sizing from both V's had been erratic throughout the day (we are maybe 3 hours in to a 5 hour session) so I did not view the $25 as defining one way or another.

I actually don't mind the flop play. I think Case2 made a good case for calling. Agree with the rest. I'd check back the turn & hope the lower end of the straight comes in.