Given the hand configuration, it is now difficult to put the opponents on a queen, much less a king. Go for thin value vs. TT/99, might get owned by a couple of 87s combos, perhaps 88. $65/fold.

I wouldn’t play the hand that way in the first place but if I did my calling range would probably only be pocket pairs because I’d assume that H range is like JJ+ only

Just so many poor statements in this thread. Makes my head spin. C betting is close, but likely -EV even given our range advantage.

Betting turn is barely discussed and is a great option. We still have a strong range, and definitely can still rep it. Plus after they both check flop I expect folds majority of time. And neither are going to be comfortable playing 2 streets, so we are setting ourselves up for fantastic river bluff. Where they are capped to pair of queen's or river 2 pair.

On river I expect to win alot. Small value bet or check both have merit.

If your not working delayed c bets into your game (both bluffs and value), then your doing something wrong. In this spot. We can get value from worse occasionally on turn and also get better to fold on river.

OP, great hand to post. To bad it turned into dick swinging.

I like how you played it. Assuming you where gonna call a turn bet?

Save your delayed c-bets for static flops that turn dynamic. I see no reason to check Kx+ on this type of flop multiway and OOP vs. muppets l/c $60 pre.

We back into a perfect spot to delay cbet. Likely nobody has K. Add in we hold 2 blockers to Qx. It is very likely we have best hand.

By no means was flop plan to delay cbet. But mearly adapting to new information, and range development.

I expect to deny equity, get value, and possibly get folds from better. Betting turn is very strong option here.

Also checking this flop with KK, and QQ a small percentage of time. Likely also checking AK with As.

Thanks. I really think I should have bet the turn, but c'est la vie. I will respond to calling a turn bet soon

There is a big difference between delayed c-betting 3rd pair with 2 high ranked overs than it is continuing with 2nd pair. This is also $1/$2 NL so checking flop with QQ+/AK oop 3-way is missing value, imho. The alternative is cbetting smaller. There is also one drunken opponent.

The information we have gained up until the turn is that likely no one has KX. I think we can also safely say that the last to act opponent likely doesn’t have QX because he would have bet flop after two checks. However, there are still 12 combos of AQ, the same amount as TT/99, that the BB can have in his PF call and flop check range. We have something like > 0% fold equity vs. this hand.

Though Hero blocks some, there are draws like AXss that will call ip. Betting will further bloat the pot oop, making a river bomb more expensive.

Not saying the turn is a C/F, but a check/eval.

I really dislike betting river as played.

If you must know I played online to start, then after 2011 I played 1/2 live and crushed it. This isn't a buy in thing. It's your range vs the board + probability of them having a king, which is actually low when we discount AK and have blockers to KJ. Now when we bet twice we force them to fold Qx. Count up the profit being made when you bet. You fold out all Qx, get value from spades, and the probability of Kx being out there is low. Not to mention this is one of our only bluffs

Pre you're basically in a 2/5 game with a 10 dollar straddle and 800 dollar stacks raise more to 80 (OOP, few limpers/stradler)

otr you basically have a bluff catcher c/c a reasonable bet

Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving (or at least a good Thursday).

UTG (~$600) straddles $10, V2 limps, MP limps, folds to hero.

Hero makes it $60

V1 flats, UTG folds, V2 flats, MP folds.

Flop (~$193): KsQs7d

Hero checks.

V1 checks, V2 checks.

Turn (~$193): KsQs7d 4c

Hero checks, V1 checks, V2 checks.

River (~$193): KsQs7d4c 8d

Hero checks. I thought about betting, but I also felt they were both weak and I could check/call. Also, I think my best time to bet was the turn.

V1 bets $200, and I think he's FOS, but then V2 calls.

Hero?

Dam.

But it's 100BB bet and rare to see that size bluff at this level. Given V2 called likely knowing V1 is weak. Both could be weak.

Have to be correct 25%.

I sigh fold. Knowing game is fairly deep and it benefits me to stay as deep as possible.

Definitely a spot where it is likely fairly neutral EV.

you could definitely jam here but after not betting the flop, betting the turn is probably no good, and definitely not betting the river

definitely a jam or fold spot on the river but my guess is they have hands that would have folded to a flop bet or missed spades, but maybe someone backed into the nuts for all we know

just think this is a serious leak in your game if you think that there is no reason to bet the flop, what reason(s) can you give for not betting it? This flop improves your range so hard and you have blockers

Because we are not getting a k or Q to fold.

Super late to this party (NH, have enjoyed), but FWIW i dont think we're good often enough on the river to call when V2 overcalls, and i'd just let it go.

I lot of people take stabs on the turn so i dont mind checking there with the intention of calling.

The bolded above should be a major factor in how we play the hand. If the game is uncapped or buy in to the biggest stack, then I can get behind the more aggressive plays on flop and later streets. But if the buy-in is capped at $200-$300, then I'm going into preserve my stack mode and playing post more passively. Maybe bet/ fold flop, but if just called I'm done with the hand.

can't really help anyone who doesn't understand this but we are quite happy when villains call down with naked K and Qx's, JJ with the Jack of spades is less than 20% of our range so if they call down 3 streets then it's going to be a net win for us. it's really really important to play your range rather than your actual cards. that's the best i can explain it. it doesn't even matter if this is the first and last hand you ever play with these guys, but the fact that we have a tight solid image makes the play even better.

so our only bluff is JJ with the J of spades and our value hands are basically the nuts, if we didn't have the J of spades we could safely c/f but with it it's just so profitable to bet, in fact it is the only profit you can make after the flop

think about it, every other hand we have in our range is the effective nuts, our ONLY profit in this hand is when we push them off their Ks and Qs with JJ

see bolded
if V doesn't care or see what our range is , they only see they have a K and the kicker to them doesn't matter
than we are burning money trying to get fold equity from someone with no fold button.
MUCH MUCH better to preserve deep stack when in games like this
value bet more, bluff less semi bluff sometimes

at $5-10 I agree with you

in your typical $1-2 $1-3 game 1/2 the players play fit or fold and your read of a player can make or save you $$$$$$

I think betting flop would have been OK, but against these players, if they call on flop, I'm done with the hand. You can bet, bet, bet 400bb deep against an extremely good player and 200bb+ against a tight/passive drunk if you'd like, but I think it's a losing play overall.

V1 could have really put me to a test if he had a hand with which to do it, and I think V2 would have sigh called me down with a K.

You do realize that one's range gets more narrow on each street? Or are you suggesting that simply because we had a strong range PF we should just mindlessly bet all three streets?

Yes sir, that has been most of the advice.

Betting is fine in this spot. We will get lots of folds. But we also lose a large bet often too.

But fact he can't see benefits of checking as option tells the hole story. In majority of threads he takes aggro approach.

Balance to him is balancing his bluffs and value bets. Which is solid start. But leaves rest of his ranges in shambles.

Checking flop here with 100% of your range. Could be just as effective as c betting your entire range.

But checking with some strong hands, and some weak hands and some airballs. Is obviously the best plan.

Results:

I seriously considered jamming or just flatting because I thought both were weak, but if I jammed V2 was not folding a K at this point. He might have folded a Q, but you never know. My line would have looked a bit FOS, too. What bothered me was that he probably thought V1 was weak, so was calling lighter.

Anyway, I folded, V1 turns over JJ and his hand is good! No idea what V2 had. I definitely blew it by not betting the turn. In hindsight, betting the flop would have worked, but I still would have shut down if anyone had called and I obviously couldn't handle a raise, so I'm OK with the check. (I really don't like V1's having position on me.)

Again. What is the max buy-in for this game? Your fold is correct or wrong or previous streets played based on this for me.

At the beginning the max is 300, which is what I bought in for. As the game gets deeper it is half of the big stack, although we usually decide to let late comers in for more if the game is really deep..

Buy-in doesn't affect my play. Blinds, straddle, opponents affect my play more. I don't buy in for more than $500, and I have limits per session.