Dolty limp callers have lots of Ks and Qs here and don't like to fold pairs. That's why betting those sets and over pairs is so profitable.

I think calling is an option if you have a really good read on BB and UTG that they look like they're going to raise, but strikes without a really solid read, it's too risky.

cfsb

Honestly folks stop replying to Wait. Best way to get him to stfu is completely ignore him.

Check flop oop to 2 tightish players, though one may be drunk.

The straddle was 5 bbs, so I'd expect most players to limp/call with tighter ranges. Obviously two overs has our hand shrink in value.

late to the party but I'm C/C here

UTG (~$600) straddles $10, V2 limps, MP limps, folds to hero.

Hero makes it $60

V1 flats, UTG folds, V2 flats, MP folds.

Flop (~$193): KsQs7d (wait, you were slightly off, but that's obviously to be expected)

Hero checks. I don't really see a reason to bet. I think either would raise pre with AKs, KK, AA, maybe QQ. They could have flatted w/ KQs (maybe not V1, but he does have position on me), AKo, easily AQ, none of which they are folding, and I'd have to fold to a raise. If I bet and they call, it's tough to continue if I don't bink a J.

V1 checks, V2 checks.

Turn (~$193): KsQs7d 4c

Hero?

Check call if v1 bets and v2 folds to that bet, we can't really bet and get value from that much worse but we can turn our hand into a bluff catcher to get value.


You don't beat alot here, you block j10 too which makes this worse.

But these guys limped and could have dogchit like low suited connectors, that picked up equity on the turn, a4s maybe lower pocket pairs.

I imagine v1 is thinking you have exactly what you have right now or AJs.

If you call a turn bet from v1 you must call a river bet as well on everything except an ace.

I'm betting here $85-100
If they should have a flush draw or 10 10 99 lets get something

You just got your ticket to steal pot.

Betting $125 on turn. Likely take it here. But if we get call. We are bombing river.

not betting this flop is just a really bad play, i guess I will get out of the thread because this is not a flop we ever want to check into a limp/call fest pre, this hand is surely the bottom of our value range but not betting this particular hand on this particular flop is not good

now I would check the turn for fat value looking to possibly check raise or check fold but this is ass backward poker in a way if you want to not bet the flop then bet a blank turn

will start with this: this is not a flop that hits limp/call ranges, it smacks our range, meaning all the Qx's have to fold we block with the Jacks, so we actually have the best hand on the flop a lot and our range just crushes, we are actually ahead of calling ranges that include limp ranges like Asxs with a blocker, our range just skews high cards and theirs low so bet the damn flop, possibly triple barrell

had we bet the flop and gotten called we pretty much got the nuts on the turn so bet/bet/bet rivered blank is going to show a huge profit overall to your range, what hands do you think they have that can continue on the turn after we bet the flop?

wait was right

I'm getting out of the thread now but stop thinking about your hand and start thinking about your range

Your range is going to be perceived to be JJ+/AK when you raise a straddled pot out of the small, that means this flop hit you HARD! if you aren't tripling the exact bottom of your range with blockers then everyone will know you have JJ and well, you are predictable and are not a threat, does it matter at all that you have the exact bottom of your range? You have the same number of combos as AK and no one else has AK

This is 1/2 live not 2/5 it's alot harder to range people and it will be difficult to fold even a queen.

My 1/2 plays almost exclusively limping unless AA/KK/QQ (but sometimes QQ)

That includes AK.

But that also includes hands like king 8 offsuit.

1/2 players are not thinking about what hits your range open raising from the blinds, this isn't 50nl online. V1 isn't the guy you should be worried about, it's v2. But I have a hard time believing v1 reads as a pro tournament player playing 1/2 live and limping. Those things just don't add up.

v2 sees a pair and continue. That being said, they are more likely to call a queen then to bet it OTT, and most likely to bet pure bluffs or very strong holdings. I played this scenario out many times and through trial and error have found you're going to get called down light (by anyone except old people) in 1/2 unless you are on a monster heater and showing down winners for a straight hour.


v2 did not pay 60$ to see a flop, hit a pair of queens with his q10 and then fold it.

There are several QX combos that the BB could take this line with. Not too worried about the other V.

Go with your live read. If you perceive weakness, bet $90, otherwise check/evaluate. Hero blocks FD/SD.

do you see how adding JJ with the spade to your triple barrell range 400BB deep when your pre flop percieved range is JJ+/AKo makes you completely indifferent to what they actually have? they can't call enough of the time with K8 to offset the times they will lose a lot with a terrible hand, uh that sounded bad. how about if they keep calling against you with K8o to a triple barrell they will eventually go broke, so we are actually pretty happy when they call 3 streets with it and quite frankly, they won't

another thing: they aren't supposed to have AK so why worry about that hand, KQ is only hand we are worried about and there are good turns that turn around our odds on the turn like a spade or an Ace, so yeah, bet bet bet

actually we are only 200bb deep so you have to choose good sizing, 125 on the flop, 125 on the turn jam river

Do you actually play 1/2 live or are you an online player? Everything you're saying applies great online and makes me think you're an online player but you will simply go broke taking these lines in 1/2.

And at least 25-30% of the players at my live 1/2 tables are limp calling AK with 100% frequency. Only open raising QQ/KK/AA

Nothing about 1/2 live makes any sense ever. Its 2nl online circa 2002

This is hardly 1/2 just cause it's the blinds. Everyone is pretty deep for 1/2 and there's a straddle.

I got called down by a woman with a3 off suit on a A K 9 10 4 runout last week.

70% bets and potting river. Three barrels

I raised 5x UTG+1, she flats from the small blind.

I had AK, but had I had JJ I would of lost. Nothing is going to make these people fold top pair. They did not cash their social security disability checks in to come to the casino to fold top pair.


You can say about printing money when villains take these lines against our strong value hands all you want. And how it means nothing we pissed away 150bb's to k8 off suit.

But the money means something to me.

Thats why I only take these lines with value hands only and simply "Give up" otherwise.

Ok but we're a 50yo woman and villains are 30yo dbags. If they somehow limp call K8 or whatever you're saying and call 3 streets vs sb lady in this spot then reload and take a note you'll get the money in no time. Stop posting stupid examples where people made bad calls before like it's gospel and will always happen.

$50-60 pre. Flop sucks but your range is still ridiculously strong so I'd probably just got $140 and hope they fold, cuz they usually will. If someone jams then you just fold and that's how the cookie crumbles sometimes....but if I'm playing this hand against a 50 year old woman raising $60 from the SB in a $1/2 game, I'm folding everything that's not 2p+ in this spot. I might even fold AK. Maybe not, but I'd definitely hate it.

This logic really makes no sense. If you are the type of person to fold anything but 2p+ on this flop because your opponent is a 50 year old woman who you clearly perceive as super tight/nitty...then what in Gods name would you limp/call $60 (30x raise) with against that same 60 year old woman?

The point being that anyone who limps/calls $60 in this 1/2 game, does not have anywhere near the mindset that you are talking about.

Someone gets it.


Dudes legit limped and then called off 30 bigs to see a flop.

Not ****** going anywhere with a pair. These are the guys i'm talking about. Would be suicide to take a value line without a value here.

If either villain found a king or a queen on this flop I expect a call down 99% of the time.

In their fish minds theyre going to be thinking "But if he she has aces or ace king why would she raise so much. She's probably just bluffing."

Or whatever logic they use to call down 3 streets with k8 off. The thing is everytime I take a value line my opponents usually show their cards and i'm appalled at what they show up with. Which is why you don't have to play fancy at 1/2, they will pay you when you have it.

Just so you know, these guys know me pretty well. I don't think I'm a typical 50-year-old woman, at least not compared to the others I know, even the few who play poker. I'm a bit looser, I drink while playing, I'm in on the jokes, they know I prefer PLO and am willing to gamble, etc. However, they do perceive me as on the tight side, but not nitty.

UTG (~$600) straddles $10, V2 limps, MP limps, folds to hero.

Hero makes it $60

V1 flats, UTG folds, V2 flats, MP folds.

Flop (~$193): KsQs7d

Hero checks.

V1 checks, V2 checks.

Turn (~$193): KsQs7d 4c

Hero checks. I think this was a mistake and a bet here would have looked strong enough that they would have folded a Q, but not sure they'd fold a K. I didn't think either had much and I should have gone with that feeling.

V1 checks, V2 checks.

River (~$193): KsQs7d4c 8d

Hero?

Don't bet

You can't represent anything at this point and can rarely get called by worse and never fold out better. When I say rarely get called by worse I mean a8 might find a call on this river or 98. The way the action played out.


You can consider a call if someone else makes a bet, if v1 were to say make a bet and then v2 folds you can consider it. Expect to see a queen about 30-50% of the time but most queen should of bet the turn.

If nobody bet the turn it’s highly unlikely anyone bluffs the river. Qx may find a value bet meaning you are going to pay off that hand anyway. Might as well get some value vs. 8x or PP’s that are planning to x back river.

Bet $60-75 and evaluate a raise. Only value hands you are worried about would be Q8/78/88/56.