Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop

11-11-2011 , 11:17 AM
I hate the way I played this hand and basically know where I went wrong for the most part, look forward to reading some better lines. My first PAHWM, be gentle.

$1/2 NL (9 handed)
effective stacks: $200

Villain 1 (UTG+1): younger LAG in hoodie, clearly the best player at the table, running over all the old nits.

Villain 2 (UTG+2): older guy seems passive, limps in most played hands (like rest of table), but hasn't shown lots of hands, so no great reads.

Hero (SB): has a TAG image, c-betting about 90% of flops and almost always getting folds.

Preflop:
UTG folds, V1 limps, V2 limps, fold, HJ limps, CO limps, button folds to
Hero in SB with AQ
Hero???
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 11:31 AM
Raise to $16 since we are OOP
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 11:47 AM
Raise it up to $18-$22.
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 11:57 AM
either raise it up to $18-20 or limp and play it tricky, i am fine with both.
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 12:29 PM
$16-$20 is fine.

But what range do we give V1, open limping UTG+1, especially if he's supposed to be a good LAG? Suited Aces and small PPs? That's about it, isn't it?
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman1
either raise it up to $18-20 or limp and play it tricky, i am fine with both.
Limping this hand HAS to be a losing play over time.. Just raise it to 16-18 and expect 1 call maybe 2 calls....even if they all fold it's not the worst thing in the world
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishtermerService
Limping this hand HAS to be a losing play over time.. Just raise it to 16-18 and expect 1 call maybe 2 calls....even if they all fold it's not the worst thing in the world
why? its only a losing play if you make bad decisions post flop. If raising to $17 is not going to yeild any folds then i dont really see a difference, since lets face it, at this level...once the first guy calls it creates a waterfall and the next thing you know you are playing a bloated pot OOP with AQ.
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 12:52 PM
$1/2 NL (9 handed)
effective stacks: $200

EDIT: Sorry, V1 is basically irrelevant in this hand! Whoops.
Villain 1 (UTG+1): younger LAG in hoodie, clearly the best player at the table, running over all the old nits.

Villain 2 (UTG+2): older guy seems passive, limps in most played hands (like rest of table), but hasn't shown lots of hands, so no great reads.

Hero (SB): has a TAG image, c-betting about 90% of flops and almost always getting folds.

Preflop:
UTG folds, V1 limps, V2 limps, fold, HJ limps, CO limps, button folds to
Hero in SB with AQ
Hero raises to $13, BB folds, V1 folds, V2 calls.

Flop: ($34)
Q T 4

Hero ???
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic
$16-$20 is fine.

But what range do we give V1, open limping UTG+1, especially if he's supposed to be a good LAG? Suited Aces and small PPs? That's about it, isn't it?
this
how often has v1 limped?
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 01:01 PM
Bet/jam $20-22

If you miss your flush,
Bet/fold turn 2/3 pot unless given odds for ur flush
Bet/fold river 1/2-2/3 pot

If you get your flush,
Bet/call 1/2-2/3 pot on turn & river
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 01:03 PM
bet $20
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by donkey xote
Bet/jam $20-22

If you miss your flush,
Bet/fold turn 2/3 pot unless given odds for ur flush
Bet/fold river 1/2-2/3 pot

If you get your flush,
Bet/call 1/2-2/3 pot on turn & river
I really dont get this...is not the whole idea of raising big preflop with ak aq type hands because we figure that they call way to loose with dominated hands...

if we follow this plan...we 20 on the flop..for a 54 turn...
we bet 40 on the turn 134 pot
and now say 75 on the river....for a $135 win.....

but we have 185 behind...so we left this dominated hand with 50 left on the table...and we had to be 75 into a 135 pot, which may get folded...and on any spade action may shut down...or if he on a flush draw, he never calls the river...

Why not pot the flop for35 on the flop....
make it 70 on the turn....
and now we have a nice clean 80 or so for the river.. into 245 pot...very callable...
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fold4once
$1/2 NL (9 handed)
effective stacks: $200

EDIT: Sorry, V1 is basically irrelevant in this hand! Whoops.
Villain 1 (UTG+1): younger LAG in hoodie, clearly the best player at the table, running over all the old nits.

Villain 2 (UTG+2): older guy seems passive, limps in most played hands (like rest of table), but hasn't shown lots of hands, so no great reads.

Hero (SB): has a TAG image, c-betting about 90% of flops and almost always getting folds.

Preflop:
UTG folds, V1 limps, V2 limps, fold, HJ limps, CO limps, button folds to
Hero in SB with AQ
Hero raises to $13, BB folds, V1 folds, V2 calls.

Flop: ($34)
Q T 4

Hero ???
Bet $25 for value. If raised just call and re-eval turn.
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman1
why? its only a losing play if you make bad decisions post flop. If raising to $17 is not going to yeild any folds then i dont really see a difference, since lets face it, at this level...once the first guy calls it creates a waterfall and the next thing you know you are playing a bloated pot OOP with AQ.
Really? In one situation we are in a big fat pot and it the other we aren't. I'd be delighted for everybody to call.
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quesuerte
Really? In one situation we are in a big fat pot and it the other we aren't. I'd be delighted for everybody to call.
You dont think that our stack size is an issue at that point then? If we make it $17 and everyone calls the pot will be $85. Any cbet will then be committing us to this hand. I would agree with you if we are deeper but our current stack size would create an awkward spot for us OOP.
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quesuerte
Really? In one situation we are in a big fat pot and it the other we aren't. I'd be delighted for everybody to call.

I struggle with this idea all the time..What stack to pot ratio do you want to aim for with AQ in a multi way pot (3+ players)...???...I think I want less then 2:1 or greater then 5 to 1 to give us the best play..

If we raise 17 and get 3 callers...that a 70+ pot...with 200 behind we now face a 3 to 1 spr....multi way...oop...is this good with a tptk type hand...

Can we bet and fold now to a raise???...
If we bet the flop...and get one caller, we shove the turn...any more bets folding becomes imposable..

what if we bet out and get 2-3 callers...we shut down??....shove the turn???..
it puts you in tough spots...

I think raising is +ev over calling and a good size raise is not that likely to go multi way, but that may change if we expect know that it is going multi way...

just some thoughts..
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fold4once
$1/2 NL (9 handed)
effective stacks: $200

EDIT: Sorry, V1 is basically irrelevant in this hand! Whoops.
Villain 1 (UTG+1): younger LAG in hoodie, clearly the best player at the table, running over all the old nits.

Villain 2 (UTG+2): older guy seems passive, limps in most played hands (like rest of table), but hasn't shown lots of hands, so no great reads.

Hero (SB): has a TAG image, c-betting about 90% of flops and almost always getting folds.

Preflop:
UTG folds, V1 limps, V2 limps, fold, HJ limps, CO limps, button folds to
Hero in SB with AQ
Hero raises to $13, BB folds, V1 folds, V2 calls.

Flop: ($34)
Q T 4

Hero ???

That is a dream flop. If the villain is passive, then bet $25 and hope like hell he goes crazy with a huge raise. Most of the time, a solitary opponent will simply fold. Now, if the villain is aggressive, then I would check/call or check/raise instead.

VS
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrick
That is a dream flop. If the villain is passive, then bet $25 and hope like hell he goes crazy with a huge raise. Most of the time, a solitary opponent will simply fold. Now, if the villain is aggressive, then I would check/call or check/raise instead.

VS
Why would you ever hope for this? If a passive opponent rasies you here then you are probably drawing dead to a spade. You really want to stack off here with just a 9 out draw that even if you hit on the turn can still be out drawn by the majority of villains range? You are really over valueing our hand here if we are raised. remember, this is a cash game, not a tourney.
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 03:14 PM
prflop i raise $20.. if the old guy is really passive $25

i c/r villian 1 will almost always try to steal and villian 2 might call for more dead money in the pot. this isn't a blatantly strong board for your perceived preflop range and does tend to hit villains more often then you. (meaning villian 1 will steal a lot if checked to) Every1 else says bet and I could be wrong but this is a hand that is so strong on the flop relative to the turn (scare cards excluded) so its better to build a pot now IMO and try to play for stacks OTF. Prob going to be flamed b/c of the possible cards that put u in a tough spot OTT though + the added risk of some1 making 2p OTT(jack non spades T and 4)

Last edited by smoothcriminal99; 11-11-2011 at 03:20 PM.
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 03:15 PM
4 limpers & $10 in dead money: I am happy with the way AQs plays OOP 100bb deep, my hand is ahead of everyone's range, OOP I raise to $20, as this would get my game's HU or 3way to make this more manageable & create a max SPR of 4.5

As played, I bet $25 on flop. We have to start getting value for our hand. We also have outs in the unlikely event we are behind.

Last edited by Asylum Warden; 11-11-2011 at 03:21 PM.
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 03:40 PM
Bet $25. If raised by lag, I'm happy to start jamming the pot. If raised by passive villain, call and proceed with caution.
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 03:43 PM
Oops, lag no longer in hand....
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman1
Why would you ever hope for this? If a passive opponent rasies you here then you are probably drawing dead to a spade. You really want to stack off here with just a 9 out draw that even if you hit on the turn can still be out drawn by the majority of villains range? You are really over valueing our hand here if we are raised. remember, this is a cash game, not a tourney.

The crazy denotes that he isn't giving us tons of action because he has a monster like top set (although, even if he does we have outs). Crazy, the way I used it, implies that our opponent is doing something kind of stupid or reckless. Sorry for the confusion.

Also, keep in mind that a tendency, such as passive or tight, is just that - a tendency. By no means is it a law.

VS
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 04:39 PM
$1/2 NL (9 handed)
effective stacks: $200

EDIT: Sorry, V1 is basically irrelevant in this hand! Whoops.
Villain 1 (UTG+1): younger LAG in hoodie, clearly the best player at the table, running over all the old nits.

Villain 2 (UTG+2): older guy seems passive, limps in most played hands (like rest of table), but hasn't shown lots of hands, so no great reads.

Hero (SB): has a TAG image, c-betting about 90% of flops and almost always getting folds.

Preflop:
UTG folds, V1 limps, V2 limps, fold, HJ limps, CO limps, button folds to
Hero in SB with AQ
Hero raises to $13, BB folds, V1 folds, V2 calls.

Flop: ($34)
Q T 4

Hero quickly checks. Perhaps too quickly.

Why did I check? Being heads up with V2, I strongly felt that he would at least attempt a steal/semibluff with something like KJ, second pair, or maybe 99-55. I was setting up the check-raise, but do I even want to check raise here? How does that look to V2 when I hit the nut flush on future streets? How does that look when I miss it? If the situation were switched and V1 (LAG) had called instead of V2, would that make this a better/worse play? Is this ever a good play or do I have FPS?

V2 bets $15. Hero check-raises to $30. V2 calls.

Turn: ($94)
3
Hero ???

Spoiler:
The answer is, yes, I have a very bad case of FPS.
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote
11-11-2011 , 04:44 PM
ugh....i hate the min-CR....what's the point of this?? If you want to build a pot, just lead.

Now lead the turn.

As played, bomb the turn. Not sure you're going to get any action, though.
PAHWM: 1/2 AQs in SB or How to Butcher a Dream Flop Quote

      
m