Just had a table move around 30mins ago so don't have any solid reads on villain. He is about mid-late twenties and I believe from later table talk worked in medicine. He is sitting about 600-700bb deep but in my 20-30mins at the table I hadn't really seen him play a hand. Ive never seen him at this game and got the feeling he doesn't play all that much. (Later play confirmed he was pretty nitty)

Hero, early twenties, only played with villain for these 20-30mins. Think I had played and won one hand with PF raise and C-bet taking it down on flop.

I've played in this game a lot, although a loose game, for 90+% of players a 3bet PF is always a big hand.

Blinds 0.50/1 (£)

Hero (£200) is UTG+1 and opens to 6 with QQ

Villain (£600-700) UTG +2 3 bets to 24

Everyone folds. Hero calls. Pot 50.

Flop 9 5 2 r

Hero leads out for 30.

Villain very quickly min raises to 60.

Hero calls.

Turn 952 3 r

Hero checks, villain quickly bets £120 (enough to cover hero) . Hero tank folds, showing QQ and villain shows KK.

Although my read that he had AA/KK was right, I think I played it poorly. My question about this hand: In my opinion my call to his min raise OTF was really bad, I should either be folding or shoving right? (But mainly folding). By calling I think there's pretty much only one card that I really like, and I leave myself in the same awkward situation on the turn that I don't like. But once I've made the mistake, and the turn is a blank, I feel like my check was also quite bad for the obvious reasons.

So what line would you have taken on the flop, and once the mistake was made how would you proceed OTT?

Thanks

PF play imo is fine. I would check raise flop and fold to a 4bet. If he just calls you donk turn all in. Anytime a preflop raiser 3 bets and it isn't checked around to him I immediately am sensing weakness, so when you put in the $30 flop raise him deciding to min. raise you isn't that surprising since you bet into him instead of checked.

Tricky spot, but only call his min. raise on the flop if you are expecting to showdown. You have to assume when he 3bets preflop and min raises you on the flop, that he will almost 100% of the time decide to bet the turn. So it's not like you're calling to reanalyze on the turn or anything and so you could have saved yourself $30 if you knew you would fold to a turn bet.

I dunno why you lead the flop to be honest

As I say, I think I played it badly, and thought so as soon as the hand had finished. I tend to play sub-optimally against unknowns and I was looking to take down the pot there so led, which was definitely a mistake.

I agree with pokerstudent that I should have check raised the flop and fold to a 4bet. My turn mistake was the result of poor flop play

no, c/r is worse than leading, it accomplishes the same thing at a higher price

From what you're describing this guy is not a loose cannon. With that type of preflop raise I would have put him on a good hand to start, and I would have always checked the flop, maybe looking to check raise, or check call- I would fold to a big bet on the flop- Sometimes you have to make that read and let go of the hand

I would assume any of the hands that I put him on preflop they would bet postF so I dont see any sense in leading out to a hand I already thought was strong Pre-- Check raise and maybe scare off an overpair (unlinekly)- Check call maybe to see turn, but you are only looking for 2 outs or you already have him beat so I dont see much sense in that

furthermore- your stack size in comparison to his I would probably check fold the flop reluctantly. If you had more in your stack then I could maybe see possibly check calling the turn to look for that miracle Q on the turn that could give you his whole stack.

So possibly check call, if things don't improve OTT check fold if he bets? But probably check fold when he bets big (which he was always going be be doing in this spot).

I guess if I'm putting him on AA/KK a high percentage of time, i ought to be playing my QQ like an pocket pair, hoping to flop a set, when I dont just check fold

Yea I think I'd probably c/c on the flop if your read is nitty, because nits will tend to c-bet JJ when it's the board is all unders and even AK. Those same nits tend to lose hart and and will often give up on later streets once called, you can fold to later bets from villains as you can normally get a decent read off of bet sizing. board is dry enough and villains range is narrow enough that I don't think you are giving away anything by not betting.

I like check raising flop here instead of check calling because if you check call then you're faced with a decision on the turn and river.

But say you check, he raises $35 and you min raise to $70. Then if he 4bets then you fold confidently knowing you're beat and you've only lost $70 with QQ's on a dry board, which you can't complain about. If he just flat calls your min raise, you could check call turn or bet for value on river if an Ace or King doesn't flip, but he is most likely trying to get it in with aces or kings here on the flop. I mean if he decides to raise to $60 when you check to him on the flop then you might just decide to flat call because I doubt he's raising that much with aces or kings. But say you just flat call his $35 and then he bets $70 on the turn. It's tricky to lay that down and even harder at the river after calling the flop and turn, so you'd lose $35 + $70 + $140, which is $250ish vs. just $70ish. There's a lot of different ways to play this type of hand, but I like the check raise/fold on the flop vs. check/call flop line better. But just my opinion...

There are two questions here: (1) What is his preflop range, 3betting UTG+2 to a UTG+1 open? (2) If only AA and KK, do you have the odds to set mine?

Answering the questions backwards, (2) is a No. It costs you 24 to possibly win 224 (your 6, plus his 24, plus the 194 more you can win) = 11.0%. Odds of flopping a Q or two: 11.3%. So you don't have the implied odds to set mine.

Villain's range: Don't know. You have to answer whether Villain would do this with AKo and AKs. If yes, that's 16 combos, with only 12 combos of AA and KK. Then you can call and play poker, but you're OOP. If Villain will do this with JJ, it's an easy call, or shove. Same for AQ. As to whether it's a call or shove in the cases where Villain will 3bet with JJ, AQ etc., that depends on Villain's 4bet calling range. I'm guessing that Villain will only call with AA and KK now, so shoving is not good. But you already stated your range on Villain's 3bet was AA, KK, so preflop is a fold, if that is true. Sounds true for this nit Villain.

He's actually callig 18 more pre since he raised to 6 and villain raised 18 ON TOP, totaling to 24. U still can't set mine here, u need at least 12:1 and there's a chance he could have ak and/or jj. As played either check call flop check fold turn or check fold flop. Against this villain, check fold is best if u don't think he 3bets ak pre.