I play mostly 1/2 super fishy games. Almost no folding, but yet almost no raising. Its mostly limp call around the table. Most pots are at the minimum 3 handed unless there is a 15x raise or more. My question is, is it a bad play for me to limp early postion with suited connectors and small pairs knowing if I hit i will get paid. In my tourny play I NEVER limp early. Is this a profitable move for these type cash games? My thinking is, if I raise most people are going to call anyways so why not see a flop for cheap? Thanks for the advice!!

It can be OK, but make sure you don't fall into the limp/call trap. Personally, I find SCs to be not so great OOP. Small PPs and AXs can be good for these types of plays though. Just be sure to adjust when the table dynamic changes.

If you are playing a game where people are pretty much just looking at their own cards, and will never fold top pair post flop, then it can be ok to limp small pairs, and call a raise if it´s less than 8 percentish of effective stacks.

Suited connectors not so much, it´s much harder to flop hard enough, and you´ll get coolered a ton by bigger flushes in a 15 way pot.

As soon as you come across thinking players, it becomes better to raise or fold small pairs from EP, as you can rep a wider range, and rep high cards to cbet off mid pairs / second pairs, and when you do hit it´s more disguised. Suited connectors only really any good IP, pretty much fold them in EP.

Post a hand, with table reads, where you limp from EP, and see what the pros think.

A lot of play at these super limpy tables is just waiting for value to fall into your lap. Trying to get into every possible pot with every possibly playable hand will mostly just result in you off money. That said, you can open up your EP limping range. If the table is that limpy, I will play any pocket pair and increase the chance I'll play suited ace-rag and connectors. How much you can open up your range depends on how limpy, how passive and how stationary the table is.

Also, if the table is limpy and passive, but not stationary then lagging it up with position can be even more profitable. Raise enough that you get 0 or 1 callers and you can steal pot after pot.

Last night I was in just this type of game. If they let you see flops for the price of a big blind, it's not a bad play to limp up front with suited connectors. You might get paid off if you hit gin. However, if there's a raise after you limp, you have to be able to get away from that type of hand, unless it's a very small min-raise. Usually when these passive, fishy players pop it, they have something that is way ahead of speculative hands like suited connectors.

However, I find that it's better still to limp behind with ATC on the button (or if a raise pre could buy the button -- that happened a lot too). That's what I did. Any bet ahead meant someone flopped something, and if I had nothing, I could drop out. If it got checked around, a bet would usually steal it right then and there. There were a couple of times when I had to pull the trigger a second time, but that was just twice during the whole session.

The only "legitimate" hand I played was a nut flush v. what I thought was a straight when a suited card of the straight-making rank fell. I felted that vil by making a "teaser" bet that he raised all-in, and I insta-called. Afterwards, he claimed to have made a smaller flush (no reason to believe he wasn't lying about raising in a situation where it was very likely I'd made a higher flush). Otherwise, it was steal, steal, steal, and it was that obvious: they bet they had something; they pass they had nothing and would not call.

Thanks for all the advice so far.
As for stealing in certain spots it is super hard. Most of them will call off there stack with TPTK or any 2pair. I learned that the hard way. haha. I really like the thought of folding early to any raise behind and playing hands that can flop nuts late.

Nice, but remember that this is also table dependent. At the passive table I play at they will c/c down with 2nd pair often, and you just end up value owning yourself. Make sure they are fit or fold, not c/c down types before you do that.

Yeah totally understand! Thx!
Another question I have is about playing my super premium hands EP. I know most everyone at the table will call 3-5x raise with almost any two. But it seems if I go to big, 10x or more a lot will fold and I pick up maybe 5$ in blinds. What is the best way to get max value out of these premium hands in EP?

Thanks! Yeah I actually got stacked a few nights ago with flush over flush. I was UTG. After reading this I could have easily avoided it by just folding those EP.
I thought oh we'll it's just a cooker but then I realize it could have been prevented

I would always limp small pocket pairs (99-, maybe even JJ/TT) in EP (even UTG) at these games.

I'd chuck most suited connectors unless there's already been some limps in front of me.

I'd probably open limp suited broadway hands and Axs at these tables.

Gopenlimping,justlikeallthegoodpokerbooksrecommend G

this is a good advice.

I like these ranges a lot. I noticed this while playing a game last weekend.

I personally dont like limping with suited connectors from early to mid position in these games. First, there's usually the high likelyhood that the cutoff or button raises to around 6xbb to steal the dead money. Second, the stacks I lose when I make my flush against a better flush or make two pair counterfeited on the river, FAR outweigh the pots I win when I hit my obvious flush or straight. I've never tried this...but if i were ever to play this limpy style of play, then I'd splash around and take small stabs at missed boards time and time again. I'd pot-control and pick on the tight-passive players. I've seen loose aggressive players win big pots and make big profits at the table and many of them seem to prefer limping over raising, but I can't say that it's an efficient, profitable method in the long run.

I'm used to limping with these hand also. Its just my comfort zone being more used to tournament poker. Maybe not JJ. But as of lately I'm starting to think that isolating and getting some value out of them is a better play than limping and trying to hit a set. Of course I know that NOT playing 22-88 from early position is probably the optimal play. But somehow....i...just....keep....limping!

Never limping jj in these type games nor 99 or TT for that matter. Sounds like a post-flop disaster/missing out on too much value episode waiting to happen. Why do u recommend limping JJ pf Ioose-passive games?

At many tables, they are simply not isolatable from EP. You end up playing a redic bloated pot OOP multi-way and forced to c/f when you don't hit a set. If you are going to set mine anyway, you might as well do it with lower cost, more IOs, and better SPRs.

At a table with more good players likely to use their position, I agree, but at a redic loose passive table, not so much.

Fine as long as you balance your range - good players will pick up on your strategy and punish you down the road if you don't mix it up.

My experience is that you are correct -- 88 or better is an automatic raise from UTG. I also don't like the limp with suited connectors from early position - I prefer a raise or a fold. If you limp you're usually folding to any significant raise thereafter. Even on a limpy table people pick up hands.

All hands have a perfect environment for highest EV. If allowed, do anything to find and create that environment. No matter what you have to do. Thus, limping surely can be ok with the right hand at the right tables.

Don't get me wrong, my 90% default play is to raise TT++ (while limping 99-, I guess I gotta draw the line somewhere and that's usually where I draw it). However, if we are at a really loose table where our raise is going to get called in 5 places, we're basically setmining postflop with JJ/TT since we're going to hate most flops that don't flop a set plus we'll be OOP. And if we're setmining, we might as well just limp it for cheap (if there's no difference in times we'll be able to stack someone, plus we'd rather no one fold preflop since we have more people to potentially stack).

I disagree. Even at super loose tables you should always be raising TT+ for sure assuming 100bbish stacks or less. The reason is just like win QQ+. You have the likely best hand pre flop AND you have a decent chance of flopping an overpair. So with TT you can flop an overpair 30% of the time and a set 12% of the time and stack off safely

You answered your own question there.

And it also depends on how well you play postflop as to whether you can play 76s utg for a limp----even when u know u see the flop for the limp.

Holy thread necromancy! What brought this zombie back from the dead?

In really passive games I don't mind limping a wide range in ep. My strategy being to play as many hands against bad players as possible, especially for one bb. I know I can outplay them post flop and I know they'll pay me off. Just make sure it doesn't follow you to the next session/table or you'll start burning money.

How is being passive in a passive game profitable?

Say you flop a straight with 64 on 753 board, how much money is going into a pot in a passive table?