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Overbets and Scare Cards Overbets and Scare Cards

02-09-2014 , 11:15 PM
This hand happened over the weekend at Harrah's New Orleans, 1/2 uncapped NL. I wasn't even involved in the hand, but it involved a buddy of mine who is a solid player who I respect. Forgive me if the answer is obvious, but I'm having trouble interpreting river overbets and scare cards in general.

A little background info on the villain. Middle aged white guy, probably around 25-30-ish, came into the casino after midnight on a weekend, probably from bourbon st., somewhat intoxicated. Sat at our table with his 2 buddies, they all buy in for $500, which is surprising for a bunch of young drunk guys on the weekend here. The 2 friends sucked, but this guy knew how to pay a little bit. Was playing any 2 cards in any position, straddling every rotation, giving a lot of action, making big bets/calls, etc. Quickly ran his stack up to $1200 or so.

Here are 2 example hands leading up to the hand in question. First hand, villain straddles. Some guy in MP raises to $15 in MP. I 3bet to $50 on the BTN. Villain who straddled tanks for a while and finally cold calls the $50. MP folds. Flop is 962 rainbow. He checks, I bet $85, he tanks for over 2 mins and finally calls. Turn in an offsuit 9. Check, Check. River is a 3, he tanks for a while and finally bets $250. I fold.

Next hand, Villain limps UTG, my buddy the reg raises to $20. Everyone folds to the villain who calls. Flop: K87 rainbow. Villain checks, reg bets $50, villain again "tank" calls. Turn, offsuit 4. Villain checks, reg bets $125. Villain take a really really long time here, appears to be ready to fold again, but finally calls. River is an 8. Villain checks, the reg checks and turns over AA. Villain turns over 86 offsuit to take it down. There is a lot of table talk between the two such as "man I shouldn't have checked that", and "I knew you were on a draw, I'm glad I didn't value bet", and similar comments for a few minutes, etc.

Now for the hand in question. Villain's stack is $1200 or so, my buddy the reg covers. Villain straddles. The reg opens to $25, with KK, everyone folds to villain, and he calls. Flop: 965 rainbow. Villain checks, reg bets $60, villain quickly calls. Turn is an offsuit 3, villain checks, reg bets $200, again villain quickly calls. River is a 9, and villain moves all in for about $900, somewhat quickly. The reg tanks and tanks and tanks for about 5-10 minutes. I can share exactly what he did and what the result was later if anyone is interested, but I want to see what other good players are thinking about here.

I've thought about it all day, and I'm just not sure how to interpret this action. Is he using the scare card to blow him off his hand? Did he spike a 9 and freak out and not know what to do other than shove? I'm just having trouble putting the puzzle together and figuring out whether to call or fold in the heat of the moment here, assuming it was me with KK here.

I'm not interested in discussing bet sizing, etc, from the hero because again, it wasn't me. I'm just trying to understand the game dynamics better and learn to make the most optimal decision in spots like this. Thanks in advance. Sorry for writing a novel.
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02-10-2014 , 12:24 AM
25-30 is middle aged?

" but this guy knew how to pay a little bit. Was playing any 2 cards in any position"

This is quite contradictory

Hand #2 I hate your friends line and obv Vs. Him calling 86off and calling a ridiculous flop over bet on a dry board with middle pair and calls another insane pot sized turn bet oop , then checks when he hits his gin card sould be a huge indicator that he does not "know how to play a little bit"

3rd hand. Why is your buddy over betting every single pot? Is he an OMC? Unless he has history with this V showing he is an overbet calling station and won't play back unless he is nutted then I hate your friends sizing. Another over bet on the turn. Against 95% of LLSNL V's your buddy is getting 0 value and only getting action when he is beat. He is essentially allowing people to play perfect against him. Bet 2/3 - 3/4 pot. Maybe even 1/2 pot of very dry boards. We have 1 pair. We aren't trying to play for stacks 600bb deep with a pair. We want value from worse hands not just action when we are crushed.

V probably has it in the 3rd hand. He passively played his trips in hand 2. Now on the 3rd hand you are showing insane strength and he shoves 900 into 570 on the river.
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02-10-2014 , 02:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmo0th10
Against 95% of LLSNL V's your buddy is getting 0 value and only getting action when he is beat. He is essentially allowing people to play perfect against him.
LOL. So is this villain in the 5% range you describe?

Again, I don't care about my buddy's line, bet sizing, etc. It wasn't me that played the hand. I'm interested in discussion about river overbets and repping scare cards vs. having it.

But thanks for nit-picking my description of the villain. That was very helpful.
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02-10-2014 , 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmo0th10
25-30 is middle aged?

" but this guy knew how to pay a little bit. Was playing any 2 cards in any position"

This is quite contradictory

Hand #2 I hate your friends line and obv Vs. Him calling 86off and calling a ridiculous flop over bet on a dry board with middle pair and calls another insane pot sized turn bet oop , then checks when he hits his gin card sould be a huge indicator that he does not "know how to play a little bit"

3rd hand. Why is your buddy over betting every single pot? Is he an OMC? Unless he has history with this V showing he is an overbet calling station and won't play back unless he is nutted then I hate your friends sizing. Another over bet on the turn. Against 95% of LLSNL V's your buddy is getting 0 value and only getting action when he is beat. He is essentially allowing people to play perfect against him. Bet 2/3 - 3/4 pot. Maybe even 1/2 pot of very dry boards. We have 1 pair. We aren't trying to play for stacks 600bb deep with a pair. We want value from worse hands not just action when we are crushed.

V probably has it in the 3rd hand. He passively played his trips in hand 2. Now on the 3rd hand you are showing insane strength and he shoves 900 into 570 on the river.
Looks like he is betting pot and getting calls from hands he has smoked. Good for him.
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02-10-2014 , 03:18 AM
Yea maybe this V falls into the category of V's who you can bet 60 into 50 on dry board with 1 pair and get called by worse, it's a rare V, but maybe this is the guy.

Not nit picking but middle aged for a description of someone under 30? lol Really bro what are you like 21? 4 years away from a mid-life crisis
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02-10-2014 , 03:28 AM
Heh, I would say I had a mid-life crisis @ 24. Achieved many of the things that I thought I needed to be happy in my life, but the shine wore off in ~6 months. Reevaluated everything. Determined that no physical object/s can lead to true happiness and I had been chasing an invisible dream without even knowing it. Now I do what I want because I enjoy it without really worrying about anything else. Don't worry! Be happy!
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02-10-2014 , 03:51 AM
^ quarter life crisis ftw

Mine was at 24 as well
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02-10-2014 , 08:47 AM
I'd fold here for 2 reasons:

1. According to history villain has not shown a bluff and is capable of being calling station so I will give him benefit of doubt.
2. I'm sure I can get villian back at better and easier spots, his play has not been great so far.
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