Hi People
jhJs
First time poster so dont be too brutal! haha

Had a couple of decisions last night with over pairs, I think they're both pretty similar so have bundled them both together.
The table I was playing had one solid reg and the rest of the players were pretty much in it for the gamble:

Hand 1:
JhJs in the BB playing £160 in a £1/£1 casino game
2 limpers and the BU makes it £7, I 3bet to £26, only the BU calls
7h8c5h
I c-bet to £46 and the button shoves for £120. I tank and decide their range is mostly draws shoving their equity. I call and villain tables Kh6h (what a flop...) and rivers the 4 for the straight and that's the first stack gone...

Hand 2:
QdQh in the SB playing £320 in the same £1/£1 game, the solid player that I mentioned is in the BB.
CO raises to £7, I 3bet to £21. Both BB and the CO call.
9d8c6s
I c-bet to £55, BB calls and CO folds.
2s
I lead again for £75 and BB shoves for £250 and the CO folds. As I say this is the solid/good player at the table so I do believe he also has bluffs in his range. I have taken AA and KK out of the range due to the preflop action so I call. He instantly tables the KK and (thin brags) I river a Q to take the pot.

I see these as very similar spots with the over pair to the board but obviously we were up against very different hands.

Should I be getting it all in the middle in these spots? Or do we have reasons to fold? Both decisions are very much reliant on the assumption the AA and KK would have been 4bet preflop like 90% of the time in these games. am i relying on this too much?

Don't include the outcome it biases the answers a lot.

Hand 1: If villain will call with that sort of garbage preflop then raising is printing money but variance will hit fairly hard because you won't be able to fold post flop very often. Also, against a good player you will probably want to fold this flop when they shove, their shoves will most be better hands or draws that are better then 50/50 to win.

Hand 2: Tougher situation. Probably the biggest thing I would note is that a reasonably solid player probably isn't bluffing here very often. You are right that a good player won't be showing up with AA/KK very often either. Against a solid player you will be running into 99/88 a lot when they shove turn but some suited connectors are also possible. This is a situation where you have to make a read and go with it.

One important thing to note that is very different between these two hands is stack size. In hand 1 once you 3 bet effective stacks are short enough that only big hands should be calling. Hand 2 the effective stacks are deep enough that calling with some suited connectors is OK.

Over pairs at low stakes are usually profitable but variance will be high. You have to know when to recognize that you are beat and fold but you can't fold just because somebody raised or moved in.

OP, please include pot size on each street in future posts, and don't include results. Also, one hand per post is the norm.

Hand 1 is standard...and you can know this because had you won the hand you wouldn't have posted it here lol.

Hand 2 is likely a fold OTT due to stack depth. With normal 100 BB stacks, a cold call of a 3bet is generally JJ/QQ/AK. But when it's 300 BB like this, you can include more of the medium PP in his range, and this flop nails him more than you.

You 3bet pre and bet twice and now he's shoving over you for 175 BB (!!) more. One pair is generally not good in this spot.

Maybe. I play against some opponents who 3bet with AA/KK less than half the time. Some people make mistakes in defining opponents' hand ranges because they project their own behavior onto opponents, such as when thinking that a villain can't be slowplaying a set because the board is too draw-y.

Pretty much never folding either of these hands, given the way they unfolded.

Also no need to include a pound sign, no one is converting to $ and we treat it the same.

One note: This "solid reg" seems way more like just a luckboxing spewtard based on these two hands. Seriously, anyone with K6 in their PFR -> PF HU 3bet calling range is terrible. Even the KK hand he butchered (and I've never rooted for a suckout so much :thumbup: )

If you call him a reg because he's always there that's fine, but he's not solid. If you think he's solid because he always has a lot of chips, you never know he could've dropped 5 BIs and is down.

Thanks for the pointers people, i'll take those on board for future posts.

Just to clarify; the solid reg is only the villain for the second hand, the first hand was against one of the gamblers at the table.

I have categorised him like this because A) yes he's there all the time and is a regular of the room, B) I've been on his table a couple of times in the past and I've never seen him make any massive errors C) he was sitting next to me and we were chatting about the game and (quietly) about other players and he seems to be a thinking player.

It seems i haven't taken the stack size in to consideration in the second hand. When you put it like that DTLB the shove for 175bb does seem massive.

They aren't similar spots. In hand 1, the action is OTF and there's tons of draws available. So it's the street for draws, plus there's draws available. In hand 2, the action is OTT and about the only draw he should have when he shoves is A 7 (or A K)

In addition, the action in hand 1 is fairly standard, but the action in hand 2 is quite odd. Usually, when someone does something very odd, he's doing it for a specific reason. And in poker that specific reason is often a specific hand.

I think in hand 2 you can release because he probably has exactly A7ss, AKss, or he has you beat. If you're concerned about calling, and it seems as if villain has a very narrow range, tend to release.

Ah, OK that makes sense. Yeah, disregard the extra flame about our "solid reg". Although the reads for both should be noted. Personally though, I never talk strategy and many here don't as well. I'll be friendly, but will only nod (no matter what they say) when others talk strategy.

Btw you might like http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...t=425273<br />