8 handed, 1/3

Hero SB: 50s woman (~$1,300). Regular in the room. Seen as tight and slightly aggressive. Been hitting and value betting very well this day. On my first $300 buy-in.

V1 UTG: MABG (~$1,000). I’ve never played with him before. He’s very loose pre and stabby post. If he limps pre, he calls almost any raise. He will bet at orphan pots or scary boards. Will chase draws and over-values hands. Will trap: He checked flop, called turn, then min-raised me on the river on 996Q7 w/ 9J and I 3x his raise w/ 66. He flatted and said I could have gotten a lot more out of him. On his second $500 buy-in.

V2 HJ: MAWG (~$300). Not a great player. Too loose pre and too tight post. Scared money. Likes to trap, but basically fit/fold. Just moved to this table.

V3 BTN: Early 30s WG (~$900). Never played with him before, but he’s aggressive and bad and occasionally lucky. (I am in the perfect seat.) He has played almost every hand pre-flop. If he limps, he calls. Raises pre with face cards. He will chase, including gutters, for big bets ($50 - $100 or even all in). Bets/raises draws big, bluffs scary boards.

He shoved pre ($500) w/ 89o vs. a 3bet and beat AA and 88 with a 9 high flush. Shoved pre w/ ATo ($500) to a 3bet and lost to AA. He raised pre to $15 w/ KJ, I flopped a set of 7s, and we got the last $100 in on the river on a K-high flop, rainbow, for $450 stacks. On his third or fourth $500 buy-in.

OTTH:

Three limps to H in SB. I raise to $25 w/ QhQs. Probably should have gone to $30; most bets had been $11 to $15 pre.

BB folds. V1, V2, and V3 call.

Flop ($96): 2d4h5d

Hero checks. This is so much more in their range than mine. I did not want to play a huge pot OOP with an over pair vs. this line-up this deep. Mistake?

V1 and V2 check. V3 bets $100.

Hero?

Pre is way too small - even $30 in this configuration is too small. I like going $40.

Can't do anything but flat the flop.

Yes, pre was too small with these guys. I wanted calls, though, but they probably would have called $50 (except for V2).

Would you have c-bet the flop?

$25 fine. $30 probably fine too. ($40? lulz)

I probably flat here as played.

V2, he's gonna fold.

I suppose V1 could do us a favor an x/r so we can just fold.

Let's see what V3 wants to do OTT.

Folding here is probably too nitty, but meh, could be fine for live 1/3NL.

ETA... I would have Cbet, yes.

Preflop is fine.

I guess flatting OTF makes a lot of sense. I think I like a small c/r to like $250. Lots of mid pairs can call that, but you’re going to build a huge pot with 1pt OOP. I can get behind either line but with these stacks makes sure you’re starting down a path you’re comfortable finishing.

Probably with the villain configuration, but I'd be very cautious if V2 continued...I don't mind the x-c at all though

lol pre is fine.

cbet flop to get value from pairs and fd.

why do you want to fold? mubs? the player descriptions aren't threatening at all.

So your preferred pre flop outcome with QQ is to go to a flop four ways OOP?

It’s not a bad outcome. Nothing wrong with it. Of course would prefer to be IP but we get dealt what we get dealt in the positions we’re in. No reason to lose you mind because you have Q’s in the blind.

I’d much rather play it 4-ways OOP with a $100+ pot OTF than scoop the $12 pot.

This is one outcome. Normally an 8bb open raise does not generate more than 1 or 2 callers.

Sure, if you routinely get 2+ callers at 10bb opens, then by all means open bigger.

+1

zero chance everyone says "go bigger" if OP only got one caller.

Will anyone spazz (especially the Button) to a lol stoopid looking minraise preflop that gets called in a couple of places? If so, I think I'd lean to a minraise preflop just to re-open the betting and see if we can get in stacks against a spazz. Otherwise, even if it gets called everyway (which it will) at least it sets up a high manageable SPR (whereas a bigger raise creates a more awkward SPR, especially deep, especially if our range might be a little face-upish here if we're seen as tight).

I'm fine with the flop check this multiway. I think the bloated pot damage has already been done preflop, but I'm fine with underrepping and seeing what happens.

Obviously can't fold to this guy's bet once we check. But I'm not sure we can raise and go nuts with other big stacks in the hand either. Think I call and evaluate, mostly hoping we get it HU, where we can then consider how many more streets we're check/calling down (probably have to at least call the turn and then evaluate on the river).

GleaningtowardsnotbloatingpotspreflopdeepandOOPaga instnon-ABCplayersG

Actually, I would have... Villain descriptions tell is we should be going bigger

Unless we can get very significant chunks of stacks in preflop to comfortably commit postflop with an overpair, I'm not buying the go bigger arguments. I'd lean to smaller to create a more playable postflop spot (which is where most of the money will be made) and to possibly induce some more preflop reraising where I then could actually get in some significant money preflop.

ETA: The difference between $25 and $40 is lol 1.5% of stacks (against the deeper guy). It's completely meaningless, especially when compared to the fact we're playing OOP for the remaining 98.5% of it the rest of the hand.

GbutIthinkIseepreflopdifferentlythanmostG

pre- 25 or 30 whatever both fine

flop: like the check multi-way and actually would personally get behind a small c/raise on this flop, you can mix in some AK with flush draws (front and backdoor) as bluffs...problem is you prob have to call if this V type jams the flop and it never feels good to put 300bb in on the flop with one pair but if he's spazzing pre- for 500 with 8x9x he prob ships all his flush draws pocket 66 etc.

bigger preflop, I like the flop check multi-way.

I’d rather raise this flop and fold to 3b than call here oop. What’s our plan for the turn? This gambly BTN probably will blast off again if we check and there will be 300 in the pot. If he pots the turn we’re either folding or going all the way with our QQ. I’d rather play back at him because given your description of V, we’re not getting to a cheap showdown.

Worse still, we could flat and it could go 3 ways to the turn. We’re oop in a 400 pot and the money is going in on the turn probably when we have to fade half the deck and we’re not even sure which half.

FWIW, I am fairly certain that if this guy has a straight draw or flush draw, he's gii on the flop if I raise. If he has two pair or better, he's definitely shoving.

Am I the only one who's cbetting here? On these three-to-a-wheel flops I wanna charge aces and middle pairs and don't really expect to get raised. I'd like a check more if there was no wheel potential.

Fair enough, but what’s your plan for the turn? And what’s your plan if it goes 3-way to the turn? I’d rather raise/fold but you read people really well so I defer to your judgment.

Raising small pre, or just completing are both super lol.

We want to try to get HU post - going three ways isn't a distaster either. We're way ahead of the limpers ranges ainec.

I suppose if this villain is regularly betting huge here with a straight draw, flush draw, and worse OP's, and is calling off with all of the above, then x-r away. In a vacuum though, I'm just not x-r vs this sizing.
No. I prefer c betting as well, but I don't mind x.

Just from what I've seen and tried to convey in the OP. This guy was raising/calling with gutters, raising draws, shoving all-in pre for $500 w/ 89o and ATo vs. 3bets, etc.

Results: I chickened out. Seriously. I couldn't imagine very many turns I wanted to see, and I wasn't sure what V1 (especially) and V2 were going to do. I did not feel like gambling with this guy for $900, which is exactly what I thought would happen, and figured I'd wait for a better spot.

V1 and V2 folded. I do wonder if I should have just c-bet, but I'm pretty sure he would have raised, because he showed his hand and it was 67o.

I've had a bad run, and I think I was playing a tiny bit scared, but more that I didn't feel like gambling for $900. For $300 - $600, I would have gone for it

I did end up taking another few hundred off of him and left $1,200 up in a 1/3 game, so I was feeling fine

Now I question the sitting to the left of maniacs as discussed in a recent thread, but I do know it's paid off for me.

Well this episode demonstrates the power of position. Even a gambler who’s not that great can flummox a skilled player when the gambler has position. You had the right read and still couldn’t execute your plan. We’ve all done this. This is why the limp/re-raise has become so popular.

Having V1 and V2 behind me definitely threw me off, too. I thought if I flat, they are flatting with any draw, and if I raised and they folded, I was gambling with V3 -- even though I thought I was ahead I didn't like it. In the moment, I figured I didn't want to see any card under 9 or any diamond, and that's a lot of cards.

I was kicking myself afterward. I probably should have c-bet and gii vs. this maniac Live and learn. Still a good session!

Folding is pretty MUBS...I get that V2 can trap, but the PFR checked, and we're way too strong to x-f. I'm really not that concerned about villains acting behind.

Yes, it was a bit MUBsy, I admit. However, the stacks were going in, and as stated, not many cards I want to see on the turn. This is the type of player you have to commit to on the flop. I could have been behind, too, but I didn't think I was. More reason to go for it.

(Also, I just realized this, so it was not part of my thought process at the time, but this guy did runner-runner the same guy three times and another guy once! Maybe my subconscious was thinking about that )