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Over pair trouble OOP vs LAG

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11-30-2014 , 10:59 PM

redrex003

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 179

Hero new to table, hoodie, fitted cap hasnt played a hand yet $300 Villian covers

Villian young asain in the 5 minutes I've been at table have seen him pushing the weak table around.

Hero opens 1010 utg+2 to $15 Villian flats in the HJ

Flop 965r I lead $25 Villian takes a second and min raises to $50

I really felt like i had the best hand, ranged him on 9x, pair plus gut shot or air I felt like flatting was bad on this board OOP so I 3bet $75 on top, he semi tanks stars at me i push the rest of my chips forward in better view and he goes all in. Hero?

Last edited by redrex003; 11-30-2014 at 11:02 PM. Reason: More descriptive

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11-30-2014 , 11:01 PM

wewa925

adept

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,039

The flop 3bet is horrible. Fold to the min raise. Now fold.

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11-30-2014 , 11:05 PM

redrex003

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 179

Why is it horrible? Do i auto put him on a set? I think a lot of the time vs this type of Villian I have the best hand here and want to find out not give up on $105?

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11-30-2014 , 11:09 PM

QuadJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 6,237

3 betting a min raise is generally bad unless your willing to get it in. If you know villain likes to make min raises to find out if you are c-betting or not, then this is OK. However, a lot of villains are more likely to min raise near nut hands or big draws. Against an unknown villain with the bottom over pair, I just give up to the min raise.

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11-30-2014 , 11:18 PM

wewa925

adept

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,039

Quote:

Originally Posted by redrex003

Why is it horrible? Do i auto put him on a set? I think a lot of the time vs this type of Villian I have the best hand here and want to find out not give up on $105?

Then why are you questioning what to do now?

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11-30-2014 , 11:22 PM

redrex003

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 179

Quote:

Originally Posted by wewa925

Then why are you questioning what to do now?

I just wanted to hear why you thought the play was horrible, i did fold to the shove BTW.

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11-30-2014 , 11:23 PM

wewa925

adept

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,039

Quote:

Originally Posted by redrex003

I just wanted to hear why you thought the play was horrible, i did fold to the shove BTW.

Raising to see where you're at is bad. Nothing you beat is ever calling the 3bet.

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11-30-2014 , 11:47 PM

Jay S

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,460

Is this 1/2? 1/3?

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Villian young asain in the 5 minutes I've been at table have seen him pushing the weak table around.

It would be good to have a little more detail than that. 5 minutes can't be very many hands. What did you see him do exactly?

I'm not trying to be pedantic; providing this kind of information helps people give you more detailed and useful responses.

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12-01-2014 , 12:03 AM

tmacTheorySSAnne

old hand

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 1,264

This thread is educational. I also thought the 3bet otf was a nice move so your
Not alone OP lol.. You moving your chips into sight looks super weak. Its a tell

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12-01-2014 , 12:44 AM

#10

redrex003

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 179

[QUOTE=universalpeace;45386469]This thread is educational. I also thought the 3bet otf was a nice move so your
Not alone OP lol.. You moving your chips into sight looks super weak. Its a

I was wondering if that showed weakness or something, I really think he must of had me beat though because i don't see him going from $65 invested to $300 facing a 3bet?

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12-01-2014 , 01:13 AM

#11

tmacTheorySSAnne

old hand

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 1,264

Yea man the comments give us very educational reasons why we shoulnt
Raise a min raise here unless we have a note
and also how long did the guy take to raise? 5 to ten seconds? if so
He could be strong 4sure

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12-01-2014 , 01:02 PM

#12

tmacTheorySSAnne

old hand

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 1,264

Hey quad and wewa. Mind chiming in on this thread? It looks like a similar situation, different board

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17.../#post45389838

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12-01-2014 , 03:00 PM

#13

QuadJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 6,237

Same sort of situation, but hero's relative strength is better. There are more hands that hero beats, the paired board is more likely to bring out a bluff raise and it's more obvious what hero has to avoid if villain is betting a draw. With no real read on villain, I would probably call flop around half the time and see what villain wants to do on turn.

These minimum/small flop raises really depend heavily on what you know about villain.

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12-01-2014 , 04:19 PM

#14

Koko the munkey

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,384

Here's why the flop bet is bad. It turns your hand face-up and lets villain play perfectly against you. Consider the options:

- V is bluffing and folds everything that you're beating.
- V is value-towning you. If you call the shove, he is always ahead. If you fold, he picks up a ton of dead money risk-free.

When you 3-bet here, those are really the only two outcomes and they are both horrible for you. Unless V is a total fish, he is never getting all-in with TP.

However, I disagree that a LAG's minraise IP is always the nuts or close to it. Often a good LAG will minraise IP to test the strength of your hand, either as a total bluff or a semi-bluff.

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12-01-2014 , 05:55 PM

#15

tmacTheorySSAnne

old hand

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 1,264

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuadJ

cool thanks

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