Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ
At the time I considered both options bad and I didn't want to spend too much time holding up the action more. After thinking about it later I still think they both end up costing me money. If I check/raise the small donk bet costs me money. If V1 had not donked, V2 is almost sure to c-bet for $60 plus on that board. If I lead into V1's donk it looks strong and I may get nothing at all.
I went with the check/raise just because V1 is forced to make his donk bet so I'm sure to get at least some money in the pot. In retrospect I think leading here is actually better. Go big, something like $85, where it looks like I'm trying to keep anybody from drawing cheaply. If I'm lucky somebody will have a big hand or good draw and flat/raise, otherwise I don't think there is any way to make any real money here because anything I do looks strong.
As noted by many so far, but still worth clarifying, the rule for out of turn action is entirely house based. Make sure you know what the rule is at the place you're playing. So I think it's important to clairfy what the rule was in the OP because different rules would grossly change what the best play is.
The most common rule is that the out of turn action is binding if the people acting correctly in turn do not change the action before getting to the out of turn bettor. And that appears to be the rule here.
But I've seen places (and not just small hodunk casinos either, big card rooms) that have vastly different rules. Poto in Milwaukee, for example, had a rule that the player who bets out of turn FORFEITS his right to bet; as in, if Hero checks, V1 is FORCED to check. If Hero bets, V1 is FORCED to either call or fold, he cannot raise. It's dumb, but it was their rule when I play there.
I've seen houses where the rule is no punishment, so if Hero checks, V1 is free to do whatever he wants. Allows for gross angles obviously. And I've seen a few other rules from other places as well, but I don't want to turn this into a post about all the different rules for out of turn betting that are out there.
Since here we've got the more common rule, x/r doesn't look nearly as strong as you claim. I'd argue donking big at this point actually looks FAR stronger, not only is it a donk-bet at this point, now it's also a donk-bet INTO a player who has shown a desire to bet (albeit small). If now you lead out $65 or whatever, allowing the player who bet $25 to take his bet back, I think that APPEARS to be insanely strong.
This is one of the few areas where you can actually throw a live reverse tell to hide strength, IMO. Acting VERY casual about the out of turn bet and a little confused about it can sometimes hide your strength when you do x/r. If, when the dealer clarifies the action is on you, you then say something like "well, I'll check to the guy over there who seems eager to bet!" in a joking/laughing manner, and then V1 bets and V2 calls, it may make your x/r bomb look like you're now just trying to steal it. We're talking about live poker here. There's a good chance either V1 or V2 is dumb enough to interpret this play as a straight steal of the pot.
Sure, there's a chance that the out of action turn killed your action entirely, and that either play at this point won't get nearly as much action as you would have gotten without the out of turn action interfering. But once the out of turn bet occured, now the casual x/r has a far higher chance of getting paid off. Plus if neither play works, at least the x/r takes down $50 extra, as Mook pointed out. So it's clearly the better play of the two options. And that's all we can do at this point.