2/3 NL

Hero with JTss in UTG+2 raises to $20 ($500)
4 callers
Villain is in SB with $300 and just sat down. No info on him

Flop:
A94sxx

Checks all the way around

Turn:
5s

Villain leads for $50
Hero ???

If someone can help me with the math behind this, but I believe I am getting 3:1 on a call and with 9 outs to help and just the river to come, I have 18% equity? In terms of this particular player I really don't have much knowledge, other than the fact that he is middle aged and hasn't played many hands in the first 2 orbits. Is this a call to peel a card on the river, a fold due to no knowledge of the opponent and potential reverse implied odds (although I don't see many Kxs, or Qxs combos in his range), or raise (which is probably my least favorite option due to the lack of information and stack sizes).

The mistake was made raising/playing JTsuited UTG+1. This should have been a fold preflop. 50 into 100 feels like a stab with a crappy Ace or PP testing the waters. I don’t foresee this getting any big calls on the river other than the money that’s already been put in. You also have 3 other callers who have yet to make a decision in which case you could be way behind or worse yet squeezed if you just call. If I really want to play I now need to fold out better flushes and Raise... though honestly fish at this level are retarted.

Fold fold fold.

With 3 people behind, I'm probably just letting it go.

V probably has an ace and they were hoping for someone to bet into them on the flop

Seems your game is quite similar to mine in that a raise preflop gets lots of callers. In which case, I just don't see the point of our open raise here at all. It's a marginal hand that likely even needs position to be super profitable, and now we've just built a hugely bloated pot OOP, and with a low SPR that will often handcuff our postflop decisions. I actually open fold this at my loose/aggro non-payoffy table, but otherwise I would sooner open limp it than open raise it.

I also give up on the flop eleventeen ways.

On the turn we're getting 3:1 to chase our flush draw (which is about a 4:1 draw), which means we'll need to make up 1 bet of $50 on the river to breakeven. Since pot will be $200 on the river and the flush draw was a backdoor draw, making up $50 seems reasonable enough. However, one of the problems (and this leads back to preflop) is that we still have the rest of the world to act behind us thanks to being OOP and we have no idea what anyone behind us is going to do. Is someone going to raise and we hate our life? Is someone going to call to pad the pot? I'd probably sigh call and feel dirty about it, and then start tightening up in EP.

GstartplayinglesspotsOOP,imoG

Assuming 9 flush outs are clean, need a return of ~4.1 to make this call profitable. 9/46 = 19.6%. So calling the $50, need 4.1 x $50 = $205 as a minimum return.

That's the math, but as already mentioned, there are players yet to act. Fold turn.

Pre - totally fine imho, given a typical loose passive table with little 3-b. May have to go higher to isolate.

So because the pot is $150 once he makes the bet, it is not profitable based on the math, if I am reading this correctly?

Yeah preflop I am fine with as well. There will be times where I just get one caller, but in these LA games 3-4 is common especially opening up from EP. Pretty much just putting all pocket pairs, suited broadway connectors, and AQo+ and AKo+ in this range. I could entertain $20, but I just think it creates a worse situation because I am always stuck with huge pots and SPR situations of like 0.5-2 lol.

I agree with the fold pre, but in this game I would call the 50 for the turn.

Not to be mean, but if you're a little unclear what the odds are to chase a flush draw or what odds you're getting or how IO factor in or how the people yet to act factor in / etc., then I really doubt it's a good idea to have anything other than a very tight range in EP. You sound a bit noobish (not a criticism at all, just an observation), and building bloated multiway pots OOP is a recipe for disaster for all but the most competent postflop players (and I would even argue that some competent players attempt to avoid this situation altogether).

GcluelessNLnoobG

The $150 is the base for calculating direct or pot odds. You need a minimum of $205, so let's assume you call, the rest fold, and U hit your flush on the river and bet $100, V calls. Your return on the $50 call is $150+$100 (river) = $250. This is the positive result of implied odds.

Keep in mind, there are other factors to consider. Among them are: opponents behind; potential fold by V on the river; reverse implied odds (RIO) whereby the V makes a higher flush.

You’re going to hate life when someone raises over your call

I think fold is good. You have 3 people behind and a non-nut flush draw not getting direct odds.

Fold pre, fold turn

Yeah, I think I change my mind and agree with a turn fold.

I was going to mention that we also hate life when we fold and 2 others behind us call (which give us more than the correct immediate odds plus increase our IO), but at the same time that might also increase our RIO.

Gplayhandsinposition,especiallythemorespeculativeo nesG